Discussion:
Hello Group!
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Tulgey Wood
2004-03-05 05:15:16 UTC
Permalink
Hello, everyone!

Thanks for setting up this ng, ***@large. I was glad to see it turn
up on my NSP's servers, but disappointed to see it's rather slow at the
mo. Maybe it just needs time to propagate. Anyway....

I gotta say, when I heard Showtime would be airing a "female version" of
QAF (because "female version of QAF" is exactly what I did hear), I
wasn't overly optimistic. But TLW has exceeded my expectations--I'm
actually eager to see each new ep, and probably because the writing and
acting are absolutely first class, I get something fresh from multiple
viewings. And in spite of their trendy, Hollywood-y setting, I really
like these characters. Mind you, I sorta wish the Jenny character had
been written less of a puling manipulative egocentric infant and more
like...ha! Mary Ann Singleton (in a lesbian sort of way, of course). ;-)
But now Jenny's had double comeuppance--Tim literally dumps her, and she
discovers she's not the center of Marina's universe, either--she may
become tolerable. We'll see.

Now that I've trashed Jenny, I should say my favorite (of the moment) is
Dana--mostly because she has a Julie Foudy quality, but also because
she's as guileless as Jenny is manipulative.

There's lots to comment on, but I want to hear what everyone thinks.
Favorite character? Least favorite? Best storyline? Worst? Isn't the
dialog great? No? What a great cast, eh? Isn't Pam Grier brilliant?
Oh yeah, and will Dana get Lara back? <sob>
--
Tulgey Wood
l***@large
2004-03-06 07:43:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Hello, everyone!
up on my NSP's servers, but disappointed to see it's rather slow at the
mo. Maybe it just needs time to propagate. Anyway....
Perhaps a good discussion will get it underway. :)
Post by Tulgey Wood
I gotta say, when I heard Showtime would be airing a "female version" of
QAF (because "female version of QAF" is exactly what I did hear), I
wasn't overly optimistic.
I was. <G> I love QAF. :)

I heard the same thing early on (several months before it started) but
by the time it drew near to airing people associated with the show
were making a point of saying it was _not_ a female QAF. [Don't know
if you saw the short "The L-Word Defined" wherein Elene, Rose, Guin
and the cast talked about what it was and what it wasn't, but Erin
(who plays Dana) said, "This is _not_ a female QAF."] Maybe they used
the success of QAF to build a buzz, then backed away as they realized
people would have different expectations than what they were going to
get.
Post by Tulgey Wood
But TLW has exceeded my expectations--I'm
actually eager to see each new ep, and probably because the writing and
acting are absolutely first class, I get something fresh from multiple
viewings.
I was a little disappointed in the pilot (and some writing that has
followed) so we kinda had the opposite expectations going in and then
the opposite initial impressions (not 180 degree opposite, just
somewhat). But I certainly look forward to it eagerly too! :) And I
agree the acting is first class, particularly by the core characters.
And last week's ep was just fantastic. I could not be happier to have
a show about lesbians that has beautiful women and great characters.
And the characters already feel real and that's high praise.
Post by Tulgey Wood
And in spite of their trendy, Hollywood-y setting, I really
like these characters.
Hey! What's wrong with LA! :)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Mind you, I sorta wish the Jenny character had
been written less of a puling manipulative egocentric infant and more
like...ha! Mary Ann Singleton (in a lesbian sort of way, of course). ;-)
But now Jenny's had double comeuppance--Tim literally dumps her, and she
discovers she's not the center of Marina's universe, either--she may
become tolerable. We'll see.
I absolutely love Mia Kirshner's job at playing this character. She
amazes me every week. And I have a lot more sympathy for Jenny, but
she is a character people tend to love or hate.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Now that I've trashed Jenny, I should say my favorite (of the moment) is
Dana--mostly because she has a Julie Foudy quality, but also because
she's as guileless as Jenny is manipulative.
Wow. You see Jenny as manipulative? I don't see her as together enough
to be anything but breathing. She is just so lost in her crisis. She
can't see beyond the present moment. She can't even fathom what she's
doing to the people around her. I think she was genuinely in love with
both Tim and Marina and couldn't reconcile that, and made the worst
choices in handling it. She's a mess but I don't think she's purposely
manipulative.

So you like Dana! She *is* funny. I love that they made her "uncool"
in a goofy way. It's a nice juxtaposition from the other characters.
Loved that scene where she's in the locker room and Lara (the chef)
comes in to change her bloody frock and Dana says, "You always look
nice. When I see you. I mean, you never look dirty. ... when I see
you..." and she turns around towards camera [away from Lara] and she's
dying. Was *really* cute.

I like all the characters, with the exception of Marina. I don't find
Karina does such a great job of grasping Marina in that I don't *feel*
this character and her acting is awkward to my eye and pulls me out of
the scene most often. Though last week was a little better.

But Alice just cracks me up. Her ability to deliver those one-liners
is without parallel. She is just so damn funny. She's the kind of
person you really want as a friend. She makes everything a little more
fun. She's very REAL.

And Shane's "coolness" and that gallant quality is really funny too.
The way she asked Tina how she was, then caught the dagger eyes from
Alice and Dana... the way she jumped in to say her uncle (or whoever)
got carried off in a straight jacket and when Alice facetiously
thanked her, she nodded like she really thought she did good... Yet
she manages to "be off in her own little world of cool" while
remaining in touch and not looking like a space cadet. In fact at
times she's the only one with any sense... like when they all burst in
on Bette and Tina after their insemenation love-making, and Shane
apologized and asked if they wanted to be alone. Meanwhile the others
were playing with the sperm-squirter and making themselves at home.

Ya gotta love Shane. And I hope they give her new hair next season.

Then Bette and Tina. Gawd. Jennifer Beals is just _so_ yummy and
Laurel (Tina) is a perfect match. I love them together. Did they look
hot dancing on the boat (at Alice's bidding) or what?! (Peggy Peabody
was a gas too!)

I truly don't have a favorite. I like different things about each of
them and am totally happy no matter who's on the screen...
Post by Tulgey Wood
There's lots to comment on, but I want to hear what everyone thinks.
Favorite character? Least favorite? Best storyline? Worst? Isn't the
dialog great? No? What a great cast, eh? Isn't Pam Grier brilliant?
Oh yeah, and will Dana get Lara back? <sob>
I happen to know the answer to that b/c I read spoilers for the rest
of the season that revealed everything -- even the cliff hanger. But I
ain't sayin.

Dana and Lara *were* great. Lara's a cutie. And yeah it's a brilliant
cast that really clicks together. I felt really sorry for Kit when her
son came and left thinking she was having a drink... and here she was
so excited drinking her faux martini. That was really a good scene.

If you haven't yet, you should go to showtime's website and click on
L-Word then scroll down about halfway and read the chat transcripts
from the cast members who've chatted with fans after each show.
They're really worth reading.

Great to see you, Tulgey!

***@large
Michelle Steiner
2004-03-06 08:00:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large
I like all the characters, with the exception of Marina. I don't find
Karina does such a great job of grasping Marina in that I don't
*feel* this character and her acting is awkward to my eye and pulls
me out of the scene most often. Though last week was a little better.
I don't like Marina because I think she's a predator and manipulative
(or is that redundant?).
Post by l***@large
I truly don't have a favorite. I like different things about each of
them and am totally happy no matter who's on the screen...
My favorites are Lara and Shane. If only they were real and available,
and I were 30 years younger and unattached, but they're not and I'm
not--besides, I wouldn't give up my partner for any of them <g>.

-- Michelle
--
Never play strip tarot.
l***@large
2004-03-06 16:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by l***@large
I like all the characters, with the exception of Marina. I don't find
Karina does such a great job of grasping Marina in that I don't
*feel* this character and her acting is awkward to my eye and pulls
me out of the scene most often. Though last week was a little better.
I don't like Marina because I think she's a predator and manipulative
(or is that redundant?).
Works for me. :)
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by l***@large
I truly don't have a favorite. I like different things about each of
them and am totally happy no matter who's on the screen...
My favorites are Lara and Shane. If only they were real and available,
and I were 30 years younger and unattached, but they're not and I'm
not--besides, I wouldn't give up my partner for any of them <g>.
I hear that Michelle! If I had to pick though in terms of who I'm
attracted to it's hands down Bette. She got me 20 years ago with
Flashdance and she's just as sexy and beautiful today. More so.

***@large
Tulgey Wood
2004-03-07 05:47:06 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
when I heard Showtime would be airing a "female version" of
QAF (because "female version of QAF" is exactly what I did hear), I
wasn't overly optimistic.
I was. <G> I love QAF. :)
I tried, but couldn't get into it. Plus, the one lesbian couple seemed
really token to me, like the writers thought they should have women in,
but really thought them a drudge to write for. So they didn't. :-(

<snip>
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
And in spite of their trendy, Hollywood-y setting, I really
like these characters.
Hey! What's wrong with LA! :)
Oops, no offense intended! :-) Nuthin's *wrong* with it. It's just
that it seems an overwhelming majority of TV shows and movies are set
there, and occasionally, I'd like to see things set...elsewhere. I
dunno, it seems LA is *the* default American locale. I can see these
characters in...Atlanta or Philadelphia or New Orleans or Minneapolis or
Austin or etc. (Mind you, Shane would most definitely *not* have that
hair anywhere else, but that's another rant for another post.) ;-)
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Mind you, I sorta wish the Jenny character had
been written less of a puling manipulative egocentric infant and more
like...ha! Mary Ann Singleton (in a lesbian sort of way, of course). ;-)
But now Jenny's had double comeuppance--Tim literally dumps her, and she
discovers she's not the center of Marina's universe, either--she may
become tolerable. We'll see.
I absolutely love Mia Kirshner's job at playing this character. She
amazes me every week.
Lovely actor, I agree.
Post by l***@large
And I have a lot more sympathy for Jenny, but
she is a character people tend to love or hate.
I don't hate her. I just want to smack her.
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Now that I've trashed Jenny, I should say my favorite (of the moment) is
Dana--mostly because she has a Julie Foudy quality, but also because
she's as guileless as Jenny is manipulative.
Wow. You see Jenny as manipulative?
At base, yeah. But probably for rather impractical and abstract
reasons. :-)
Post by l***@large
I don't see her as together enough to be anything but breathing.
No, she isn't very good at it, is she? ;-) That it doesn't come easy to
her may be her redemption.
Post by l***@large
She is just so lost in her crisis. She
can't see beyond the present moment. She can't even fathom what she's
doing to the people around her. I think she was genuinely in love with
both Tim and Marina and couldn't reconcile that, and made the worst
choices in handling it. She's a mess but I don't think she's purposely
manipulative.
I don't think she's maliciously manipulative, but she does manipulate
with purpose. And that purpose is to create as broad an experience for
herself as possible. Jenny is a writer, a manipulator by nature. And
as an artist, she craves experience. But Jenny's character is flawed,
and her way of thinking about gaining experience is unsound. One, she
doesn't understand that empathy is a whole 'nuther dimension of
experience, and she dismisses it completely out of hand. And two, she
doesn't realize that she can be selective in her experiences and still
be true to her art. She seems to believe that behaving like a
self-involved sponge is a good thing. It's all or nothing with her, and
that's probably what makes her appear such a mess on the surface. And
when everything falls apart, it falls apart on her alone. She's really
sorry Tim caught her with Marina, but she's not sorry for Tim. She's
sorry for herself. Rather than feel badly for Tim, she objectifies her
betrayal of him with his wedding band round her neck like an albatross.
When she makes love to Marina, the ring, the ring! As Jenny caresses
Marina, so does the ring. It's between them, like a conspiracy.
Post by l***@large
So you like Dana! She *is* funny. I love that they made her "uncool"
in a goofy way. It's a nice juxtaposition from the other characters.
Loved that scene where she's in the locker room and Lara (the chef)
comes in to change her bloody frock and Dana says, "You always look
nice. When I see you. I mean, you never look dirty. ... when I see
you..." and she turns around towards camera [away from Lara] and she's
dying. Was *really* cute.
Uh-huh. I like their scenes. Both characters are very real.
Post by l***@large
I like all the characters, with the exception of Marina. I don't find
Karina does such a great job of grasping Marina in that I don't *feel*
this character and her acting is awkward to my eye and pulls me out of
the scene most often. Though last week was a little better.
Marina is just a bit too cool and collected. It's like she's holding
back something. Can't say what, exactly. Maybe it'll come to me as
things go along.
Post by l***@large
But Alice just cracks me up. Her ability to deliver those one-liners
is without parallel. She is just so damn funny. She's the kind of
person you really want as a friend. She makes everything a little more
fun. She's very REAL.
I agree, she *is* a scream.
Post by l***@large
Ya gotta love Shane. And I hope they give her new hair next season.
I *do* love Shane. Her hair, not so much. Maybe one episode she'll go
about with bed head all day and it'll look normal.
Post by l***@large
Then Bette and Tina. Gawd. Jennifer Beals is just _so_ yummy and
Laurel (Tina) is a perfect match. I love them together. Did they look
hot dancing on the boat (at Alice's bidding) or what?!
They are perfect together. When I first heard Laurel Holloman was going
to be playing Jennifer Beals's partner, I immediately thought of her
character in The Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls in Love and
thought, "Gaaah! What a mismatch!" (Sheesh, what an idiot.)
Post by l***@large
(Peggy Peabody was a gas too!)
Yes, Holland Taylor. She's very cool.

<snip>
Post by l***@large
I felt really sorry for Kit when her
son came and left thinking she was having a drink... and here she was
so excited drinking her faux martini. That was really a good scene.
It was excellent. (That son needs a boot up the backside.) When Bette
and Kit were leaving the bar afterwards, the look on Kit's face reminded
me of Xena's just after she'd given her infant son away.
Post by l***@large
If you haven't yet, you should go to showtime's website and click on
L-Word then scroll down about halfway and read the chat transcripts
from the cast members who've chatted with fans after each show.
They're really worth reading.
Thanks, I will.
Post by l***@large
Great to see you, Tulgey!
You, too, ***@large !
The Black Wolf
2004-03-07 02:11:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Hello, everyone!
up on my NSP's servers, but disappointed to see it's rather slow at the
mo. Maybe it just needs time to propagate. Anyway....
Welcome! :)
Post by Tulgey Wood
I gotta say, when I heard Showtime would be airing a "female
version" of
Post by Tulgey Wood
QAF (because "female version of QAF" is exactly what I did hear), I
wasn't overly optimistic.
You don't like QAF?

The trailers that would play promoting TLW (usually after QAF) smacked
of playing lesbianism for the titillation factor, geared towards
straight male audiences. I wasn't overly optimistic for that reason.
But since the TLW aired, I've been pleasantly surprised, especially
this past week after 2 rather tedious eps (jimo).
Post by Tulgey Wood
But TLW has exceeded my expectations--I'm
actually eager to see each new ep, and probably because the writing and
acting are absolutely first class, I get something fresh from
multiple
Post by Tulgey Wood
viewings.
Ditto. The writing seems to be uneven at times. Overall I'd give it a
B+. But when it is good, it is great! I like the characters more each
week, especially the cookie-tossing triumverate (how funny was that
scene?), Alice, Dana & Shane.
Post by Tulgey Wood
And in spite of their trendy, Hollywood-y setting, I really
like these characters. Mind you, I sorta wish the Jenny character had
been written less of a puling manipulative egocentric infant and more
like...ha! Mary Ann Singleton (in a lesbian sort of way, of course). ;-)
But now Jenny's had double comeuppance--Tim literally dumps her, and she
discovers she's not the center of Marina's universe, either--she may
become tolerable. We'll see.
Jenny is annoying. I hate her stage whispering ad nauseum. But Mia is
a fantastic actor. I think she gives Jenny's character real life, even
if I don't particularly care for Jenny's flip-flopping. I think that
for most people who have put the pains of coming out behind them (as
much of TLW audience has...) that particular storyline is not fun to
watch, not even for drama's sake.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Now that I've trashed Jenny, I should say my favorite (of the
moment) is
Post by Tulgey Wood
Dana--mostly because she has a Julie Foudy quality, but also because
she's as guileless as Jenny is manipulative.
Who's Julie Foudy?

Dana is the best. I'm looking forward to her "Come Out and Stay Out"
campaign, with and w/o Subaru. :)
Post by Tulgey Wood
There's lots to comment on, but I want to hear what everyone thinks.
Favorite character?
Dana.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Least favorite?
Lisa (yech!)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Best storyline?
The James Bond escapade & the "boring" intervention were fave scene,
but I couldn't pick a best storyline. There is such a fantastic blend
of overarching and sub-plot storylines that the show is just such a
rich mix. The 3 muskateers' antics have me in hysterics as much as Kit
Porter's life challenges break my heart.

What a great show! It's been a long time coming.

-The L Wolf
Tulgey Wood
2004-03-07 07:00:54 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by The Black Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
I gotta say, when I heard Showtime would be airing a "female
version" of QAF (because "female version of QAF" is exactly what I did hear), I
wasn't overly optimistic.
You don't like QAF?
Couldn't get into it, really. Got behind watching, then got lost, then
stopped trying to keep up. (And that was just in the first season.) :-D

<snip>
Post by The Black Wolf
The writing seems to be uneven at times. Overall I'd give it a
B+. But when it is good, it is great! I like the characters more each
week, especially the cookie-tossing triumverate (how funny was that
scene?), Alice, Dana & Shane.
Very funny (and oddly familiar, somehow).... :-)
Post by The Black Wolf
Jenny is annoying. I hate her stage whispering ad nauseum. But Mia is
a fantastic actor. I think she gives Jenny's character real life, even
if I don't particularly care for Jenny's flip-flopping.
Agreed. She's doing an excellent job with the part, IMO.
Post by The Black Wolf
I think that
for most people who have put the pains of coming out behind them (as
much of TLW audience has...) that particular storyline is not fun to
watch, not even for drama's sake.
Too right. And I had thought of excusing Jenny's character for that
reason, but I'm completely suspicious of Jenny's motives (even if she
tells herself they're pure). I wonder if Jenny really is going through
self-discovery or is just trying on something new because the
opportunity presented itself. (I haven't read any spoilers, so I don't
know the answer to that, nor do I know which characters are permanent
and which are temps, so FAIK, the latter could be the case.)
Post by The Black Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Now that I've trashed Jenny, I should say my favorite (of the moment)
is Dana--mostly because she has a Julie Foudy quality, but also because
she's as guileless as Jenny is manipulative.
Who's Julie Foudy?
http://www.womensoccer.com/biogs/foudy.html

<snip>
Post by The Black Wolf
The James Bond escapade & the "boring" intervention were fave scene,
but I couldn't pick a best storyline. There is such a fantastic blend
of overarching and sub-plot storylines that the show is just such a
rich mix. The 3 muskateers' antics have me in hysterics as much as Kit
Porter's life challenges break my heart.
Yeah, everything's so good it's tough to pick and choose.

Mind you, I keep expecting something really stoopid to turn up and gag
me senseless (which is what has always happened to shows I've been into,
unfortunately). So far, the only ridiculous thing I can point to is the
debacle ensuing after Tim walks in on Jenny and Marina...that and the
silly whispering thing Jenny and Marina got up to with Alice (so grade
school).
Post by The Black Wolf
What a great show! It's been a long time coming.
Yeppers. Let's hope it's a long time staying.

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