Discussion:
"Looking Back" -- thumbs up
(too old to reply)
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-03 06:01:46 UTC
Permalink
In message <***@4ax.com>,
(***@large.com) wrote:

<snip>
And yes, whoever is sitting closest to Bette, please bitch-slap her for
me too!
Huh? Ya wot? Right, who are you, and what have you done with
***@large ? ;-)

Last week was bad enough with Slim Diddy putting the affair idea into
Bette's mind (though when she does start smearing about on ol' Carpenter
Candy, I'm sure Slim Diddy is the farthest thing from her mind). This
week they have her practically paying for sex (with CAC funds), and all
you can manage is a proxy bitch-slap? ;-D

That cheap/good/fast triangle BS Candace pulled is just a contractor's
gimmicky way of pointing out that you get what you pay for. So Bette
gives the museum job to Candace so she can "bump up against" *her* "for
the better part of a year." Gee, do you think they could have drawn us
a clearer picture?

Right. That's disgusting enough, but then, Tina leaves her brain in
Alice's van and swallows--hook, line, and bloody sinker--Bette's hugely
lame excuse for why she whispers in an agonized voice, "I can't, I just
can't" before she knows it's Tina behind her.
(And I hope that's as far as that goes!)
I do, too, but my prediction is we haven't seen the last of Carpenter
Candy, and I expect poor Tina will find out about her sooner rather than
later. Please, an affair? With the museum carpenter? I guess we
should be thankful it wasn't the pool girl. IAC, what a butt-stoopid
story arc. It's worse than the baby one.

(Disclaimer: All quotations above are paraphrased, onaccounta I only
got to see the ep once and didn't take notes.)
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-03 06:04:37 UTC
Permalink
This ep was MUCH better than last week!
All I can say--actually, all I can't stop saying--is, "Bette and Alice?"
That's as unbelievable a pairing as...as...Lola Lola and Edina Monsoon.
The coming out stories were cute.
...though, sorta predictable. Oh, what a surprise! Shane knew she was
gay straight outta the womb. Oh, what a surprise! Bisexual Alice had
it off with a girl in college. (Who hasn't?) Oh, what a surprise!
Dana's first love was another tennis player. At tennis camp. Oh, what
a surprise! Tina didn't know she was gay until she met Bette. Oh,
wait. We knew that, already. Oh, what a surprise! Jenny didn't know
she was gay until she met Marina. Oh, wait. She still doesn't.
Pppttt.
I laughed and laughed and laughed at them
singing Closer to Fine over and over again, because, really, is any lesbian on the
planet who has not done that?
Why? Is that a trick question? If I say I haven't, or that I only own
two Indigo Girls albums and neither of them have that song on, do I get
busted as straight...or worse, a misidentifying bisexual? ;-D
Very cute.
Not so much. (Mind you, I'd have been bleeding from the ears, and put
out of the van long before Alice's mum.) :-)
Who was Dana's first gf supposed to be?
Another tennis player with a pink-bloused, poil-chokered, Republican
mummy.
I was thinking Stephie Graff but the hair's the wrong color.
Well, if you're going by physical accuracy, Dana wasn't Dana, either,
exactly. They didn't even try to de-age her with a wacky wig like they
did everyone else; they just used a different actor. So, might as well
assume they used a different actor for the lover, too.
Though Dana's present choice in women is bad, bad, bad.
Beware Mr. Piddles.
Dana being groped by a groupie was every bit as silly and annoying as
Dana being groped by Jenny.
We FINALLY have Alice back, and babyless, TTG!
That whole false alarm thing was totally pointless...unless it served to
put Alice off men for the rest of her life (we can only hope).
Jenny was amusing, mostly, but still annoying.
Only annoying, IMO. (At least she's consistent.)
I'm glad she didn't say stupid,
drunk things to Marina over the phone.
Yeah, she'd already done that plenty of times in person.
That trapeze woman was nice to save her.
Jeez, you'd think they'd at least *try* to be a little less obvious:
Jenny runs away to the circus, (clichéd) refuge of social misfits....
But Jenny is still straddling the fence.
If she's still on the fence, she hasn't any out to come. Anyway, I
don't think she's on the fence. I think she's at least as gay as Tina.
The difference between them is, Jenny's the type who has trouble coping
with the unexpected, and Tina isn't.
At the white party she looked cute in the
baseball "Lesbian Wanted" shirt, telling her coming out story, but she was still
dressed in half-black at the white party...
How...embarrassing.
Bette needs to get bitch-slapped upside the head.
Uh.... At least.
I liked seeing Tina with the girls, she looks like she can be a lot of fun. If
only Bette could see or remember that.
But Shane... falling in love with Ms. Cherie Ho-bitch?? I dunno.
Shane falling in love with *anyone* without benefit of therapy is
ridiculous.
Overall, though, I give it 2 thumbs up.
Add a road trip to load of crap, and you're anyone's bitch. ;-D
Looking forward to rewatching this ep.
Actually, I *would* like to watch it again, because when I checked into
the ng after watching it the once, I expected the place to be in
flames...at least, over traitorous Bette and the idiot Tina. But, my
subscription VOD isn't working and the show isn't repeated, so I'm
working off memory, and for the life of me can't recall being impressed.
Maybe tomorrow the VOD will work and I'll find I watched the wrong ep,
or at least an alternate universe version of the right one. :-P
The L Wolf
2004-04-03 20:24:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
This ep was MUCH better than last week!
All I can say--actually, all I can't stop saying--is, "Bette and Alice?"
That's as unbelievable a pairing as...as...Lola Lola and Edina Monsoon.
I know, pretty f***ing stupid. But we knew that way back when in the ep where
Alice showed Dana her lovely six-degrees whiteboard and proceeded to explain many
people she was away from Tina then how many people they were way from each other.

I think Alice liked Dana in that same ep when she invited her back to her place.
Then Dana gave Alice an "are you crazy" look and they pinky swore never to sleep
together. Gaaahh. Well, Alice musta had her fingers crossed because now she's
lookin' mightly green-eyed at Dana's gropey groupy.
Post by Tulgey Wood
The coming out stories were cute.
...though, sorta predictable. Oh, what a surprise! Shane knew she was
gay straight outta the womb. Oh, what a surprise! Bisexual Alice had
it off with a girl in college. (Who hasn't?)
ROTFL!
Post by Tulgey Wood
Oh, what a surprise!
Dana's first love was another tennis player. At tennis camp.
Yeah, so American Pie. "One time, at band camp..."
Post by Tulgey Wood
Oh, what
a surprise! Tina didn't know she was gay until she met Bette. Oh,
wait. We knew that, already. Oh, what a surprise! Jenny didn't know
she was gay until she met Marina. Oh, wait. She still doesn't.
Pppttt.
heh. Well, Tina does keep trying to reach out to Jenny. She knows what Jenny's
going through. But that very real aspect of Tina and a potential for a real friend
for Jenny... oh hell, it was just too tedious to write. Instead, let's have Jenny
metaphorically swing herself through the air ep to ep, on a crash course to
nowhere, and then let's have her explain it to the audience, oh, but let's put a
real trapeze artist in the scene so it doesn't come off too heavy handed... big
fat fricking yawn.
Post by Tulgey Wood
I laughed and laughed and laughed at them
singing Closer to Fine over and over again, because, really, is any lesbian on the
planet who has not done that?
Why? Is that a trick question? If I say I haven't, or that I only own
two Indigo Girls albums and neither of them have that song on, do I get
busted as straight...or worse, a misidentifying bisexual? ;-D
Huh, well, if you don't own a guitar, I suppose you could apply for a pass on that
requirement.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Who was Dana's first gf supposed to be?
Another tennis player with a pink-bloused, poil-chokered, Republican
mummy.
LOL!
Post by Tulgey Wood
I was thinking Stephie Graff but the hair's the wrong color.
Well, if you're going by physical accuracy, Dana wasn't Dana, either,
exactly. They didn't even try to de-age her with a wacky wig like they
did everyone else;
(Yeah, that was cool how they got Shane to look like a seven year old. :-P)
Post by Tulgey Wood
they just used a different actor. So, might as well
assume they used a different actor for the lover, too.
Ah, no wonder Dana is such a disaster with her girlfriends, she didn't even go
through her own coming out experience!
Post by Tulgey Wood
Though Dana's present choice in women is bad, bad, bad.
Beware Mr. Piddles.
Dana being groped by a groupie was every bit as silly and annoying as
Dana being groped by Jenny.
At least Jenny didn't make little yelping poodle noises. How Dana could sleep with
that thing is beyond me. Add Dana to the bitch-slap list.
Post by Tulgey Wood
We FINALLY have Alice back, and babyless, TTG!
That whole false alarm thing was totally pointless...unless it served to
put Alice off men for the rest of her life (we can only hope).
Funny how Alice turned to men right after Dana met Lara. That Gabby girl, played
by Guin Turner, wasn't really a match for Alice. Alice should have wiped the floor
with her -- that whole regurgitation of the gang's comments to Gabby was cute but
overconstructed, imo. And Alice may be bisexual, but the way they have her being
so "anti-lesbian" while she's busy "riding the big fat weenie" is just... aside
from gross... two-dimensional and, well, grossly anti-lesbian.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Jenny was amusing, mostly, but still annoying.
Only annoying, IMO. (At least she's consistent.)
I'm glad she didn't say stupid,
drunk things to Marina over the phone.
Yeah, she'd already done that plenty of times in person.
Ack, so true.
Post by Tulgey Wood
That trapeze woman was nice to save her.
Jenny runs away to the circus, (clichéd) refuge of social misfits....
Yeah... but Jenny wasn't trying for the circus. She just runs around with
anything.
Post by Tulgey Wood
But Jenny is still straddling the fence.
If she's still on the fence, she hasn't any out to come. Anyway, I
don't think she's on the fence. I think she's at least as gay as Tina.
Meaning she'd fall in love with a specific person, no matter male or female? That
is, when she's not busy being a cardboard caricature.
Post by Tulgey Wood
The difference between them is, Jenny's the type who has trouble coping
with the unexpected, and Tina isn't.
Jenny has trouble coping with anything. But she was pretty funny trying to get the
gang to tell her if she was a hundred footer. Wonder what she would have done if
they'd said yes.
Post by Tulgey Wood
At the white party she looked cute in the
baseball "Lesbian Wanted" shirt, telling her coming out story, but she was still
dressed in half-black at the white party...
How...embarrassing.
Nobody told her I guess. And why the hell would she wander off to get a drink by
herself? Why wouldn't she hang out with the people she walked in with? Dipwad.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Bette needs to get bitch-slapped upside the head.
Uh.... At least.
I liked seeing Tina with the girls, she looks like she can be a lot of fun. If
only Bette could see or remember that.
But Shane... falling in love with Ms. Cherie Ho-bitch?? I dunno.
Shane falling in love with *anyone* without benefit of therapy is
ridiculous.
The whole setup to Shane's character is so weak it makes me spit. From free spirit
to prostitute to outright whore. But it's ok because "she's in love". Right.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Overall, though, I give it 2 thumbs up.
Add a road trip to load of crap, and you're anyone's bitch. ;-D
Hey, I like road trips, bitch. :-)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Looking forward to rewatching this ep.
Actually, I *would* like to watch it again, because when I checked into
the ng after watching it the once, I expected the place to be in
flames...at least, over traitorous Bette and the idiot Tina.
There's always next week. <g>
Post by Tulgey Wood
But, my
subscription VOD isn't working and the show isn't repeated, so I'm
working off memory, and for the life of me can't recall being impressed.
Maybe tomorrow the VOD will work and I'll find I watched the wrong ep,
or at least an alternate universe version of the right one. :-P
It wasn't as bad as the last 4-5 weeks. That alone was reason to cheer. I liked
having Alice back. But that Carpenter woman looked like a monkey. She should get
together with the trapeze artist and join the circus and leave Bette alone.

One other thing. I'm tired of the way the writers have 2 women having the same
type of first kiss over and over. First, Marina follows Jenny into the bathroom
and goes for it. Then an ep or 2 later, Lara comes back around the locker room
corner and plants one on Dana. It seems that we've been seeing similar "first
kisses" ever since. MonkeyWoman practically did the same thing to Bette. Aside
from angering in Bette's case, it's become boring.

Ho hum. Hmm, time for an Indigo Girls CD or something.

-L Wolf
::whistling::
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-04 00:17:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
This ep was MUCH better than last week!
All I can say--actually, all I can't stop saying--is, "Bette and Alice?"
That's as unbelievable a pairing as...as...Lola Lola and Edina Monsoon.
I know, pretty f***ing stupid. But we knew that way back when in the ep where
Alice showed Dana her lovely six-degrees whiteboard and proceeded to explain many
people she was away from Tina then how many people they were way from each other.
I knew I should have watched those earlier eps more than once...or at
least paid attention.
Post by The L Wolf
I think Alice liked Dana in that same ep when she invited her back to her place.
Then Dana gave Alice an "are you crazy" look and they pinky swore never to sleep
together. Gaaahh. Well, Alice musta had her fingers crossed because now she's
lookin' mightly green-eyed at Dana's gropey groupy.
Yep. Call her a hippie, but she is a bit jelly. ;-)

<snip>
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
I laughed and laughed and laughed at them
singing Closer to Fine over and over again, because, really, is any lesbian on
the planet who has not done that?
Why? Is that a trick question? If I say I haven't, or that I only own
two Indigo Girls albums and neither of them have that song on, do I get
busted as straight...or worse, a misidentifying bisexual? ;-D
Huh, well, if you don't own a guitar, I suppose you could apply for a pass on that
requirement.
Does a fiddle count, or have I just dug myself a deeper hole?
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Who was Dana's first gf supposed to be?
I was thinking Stephie Graff but the hair's the wrong color.
Well, if you're going by physical accuracy, Dana wasn't Dana, either,
exactly. They didn't even try to de-age her with a wacky wig like they
did everyone else;
(Yeah, that was cool how they got Shane to look like a seven year old. :-P)
CGI.

<snip>
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Though Dana's present choice in women is bad, bad, bad.
Beware Mr. Piddles.
Dana being groped by a groupie was every bit as silly and annoying as
Dana being groped by Jenny.
At least Jenny didn't make little yelping poodle noises.
Yes, thank the gods for small favors.
Post by The L Wolf
How Dana could sleep with
that thing is beyond me. Add Dana to the bitch-slap list.
You slap her. I'm changing the channel.
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
We FINALLY have Alice back, and babyless, TTG!
That whole false alarm thing was totally pointless...unless it served to
put Alice off men for the rest of her life (we can only hope).
Funny how Alice turned to men right after Dana met Lara.
I guess that was another time I wasn't paying close attention. I
thought Alice had been flopping back and forth since Tayo the bassist.
Post by The L Wolf
That Gabby girl, played
by Guin Turner, wasn't really a match for Alice. Alice should have wiped the floor
with her -- that whole regurgitation of the gang's comments to Gabby was cute but
overconstructed, imo.
One of those overplayed throwaways that wasn't.
Post by The L Wolf
And Alice may be bisexual, but the way they have her being
so "anti-lesbian" while she's busy "riding the big fat weenie" is just... aside
from gross... two-dimensional and, well, grossly anti-lesbian.
Dirty bisexual. Who said that--Dana, wasn't it? Maybe Dana's a bit
jelly, too. Maybe Lara is gone for good and the rest of the season
it'll be Alice and Dana not groping and/or making poodle noises.

<snip>
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
That trapeze woman was nice to save her.
Jenny runs away to the circus, (clichéd) refuge of social misfits....
Yeah... but Jenny wasn't trying for the circus. She just runs around with
anything.
Anything that swings by....
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
But Jenny is still straddling the fence.
If she's still on the fence, she hasn't any out to come. Anyway, I
don't think she's on the fence. I think she's at least as gay as Tina.
Meaning she'd fall in love with a specific person, no matter male or female?
No, meaning she's a lesbian in denial (ie, one who needs knocking in the
head with a sledgehammer).
Post by The L Wolf
That is, when she's not busy being a cardboard caricature.
Can't blame her for that, unless she's writing herself.
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
The difference between them is, Jenny's the type who has trouble coping
with the unexpected, and Tina isn't.
Jenny has trouble coping with anything. But she was pretty funny trying to get the
gang to tell her if she was a hundred footer. Wonder what she would have done if
they'd said yes.
Put her hands to her face, made big eyes, and said, "fuuuuuuuk."
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
At the white party she looked cute in the
baseball "Lesbian Wanted" shirt, telling her coming out story, but she was
still dressed in half-black at the white party...
How...embarrassing.
Nobody told her I guess. And why the hell would she wander off to get a drink by
herself? Why wouldn't she hang out with the people she walked in with? Dipwad.
Maybe the others abandoned her, or she went off in search of the loo and
got lost? More lazy, sloppy writing?

<snip>
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
But Shane... falling in love with Ms. Cherie Ho-bitch?? I dunno.
Shane falling in love with *anyone* without benefit of therapy is
ridiculous.
The whole setup to Shane's character is so weak it makes me spit. From free spirit
to prostitute to outright whore. But it's ok because "she's in love". Right.
Too bad. Shane had potential to be one of the more interesting
characters.
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Overall, though, I give it 2 thumbs up.
Add a road trip to load of crap, and you're anyone's bitch. ;-D
Hey, I like road trips, bitch. :-)
Yep. :-)
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Looking forward to rewatching this ep.
Actually, I *would* like to watch it again, because when I checked into
the ng after watching it the once, I expected the place to be in
flames...at least, over traitorous Bette and the idiot Tina.
There's always next week. <g>
Have fun! :-)
Post by The L Wolf
It wasn't as bad as the last 4-5 weeks. That alone was reason to cheer. I liked
having Alice back. But that Carpenter woman looked like a monkey.
Curious George, actually. In coveralls.
Post by The L Wolf
She should get
together with the trapeze artist and join the circus and leave Bette alone.
More Jenny's type, really, wouldn't you say?
Post by The L Wolf
One other thing. I'm tired of the way the writers have 2 women having the same
type of first kiss over and over. First, Marina follows Jenny into the bathroom
and goes for it. Then an ep or 2 later, Lara comes back around the locker room
corner and plants one on Dana. It seems that we've been seeing similar "first
kisses" ever since. MonkeyWoman practically did the same thing to Bette. Aside
from angering in Bette's case, it's become boring.
Ho hum. Hmm, time for an Indigo Girls CD or something.
Just don't sing without the CD playing, okay? ;-)
The L Wolf
2004-04-07 05:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
This ep was MUCH better than last week!
(back in the good old days...)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
All I can say--actually, all I can't stop saying--is, "Bette and Alice?"
That's as unbelievable a pairing as...as...Lola Lola and Edina Monsoon.
I know, pretty f***ing stupid. But we knew that way back when in the ep where
Alice showed Dana her lovely six-degrees whiteboard and proceeded to explain many
people she was away from Tina then how many people they were way from each other.
I knew I should have watched those earlier eps more than once...or at
least paid attention.
Just to Alice, pre-Lisaman.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
I laughed and laughed and laughed at them
singing Closer to Fine over and over again, because, really, is any lesbian on
the planet who has not done that?
Why? Is that a trick question? If I say I haven't, or that I only own
two Indigo Girls albums and neither of them have that song on, do I get
busted as straight...or worse, a misidentifying bisexual? ;-D
Huh, well, if you don't own a guitar, I suppose you could apply for a pass on that
requirement.
Does a fiddle count, or have I just dug myself a deeper hole?
Fiddle??! As in Dixie Chicken? /|\ LOL
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Though Dana's present choice in women is bad, bad, bad.
Beware Mr. Piddles.
Dana being groped by a groupie was every bit as silly and annoying as
Dana being groped by Jenny.
At least Jenny didn't make little yelping poodle noises.
(She probably woulda meowed for Dana though... "Who's your kitty?")
Post by Tulgey Wood
Yes, thank the gods for small favors.
Post by The L Wolf
How Dana could sleep with
that thing is beyond me. Add Dana to the bitch-slap list.
You slap her. I'm changing the channel.
I'll slap her alright. "Hello, Ms. Fairbanks, san I see your tennis racket...?"
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by The L Wolf
Funny how Alice turned to men right after Dana met Lara.
I guess that was another time I wasn't paying close attention. I
thought Alice had been flopping back and forth since Tayo the bassist.
Yeah but she flopped over to L-man right after Dana met her L-woman.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by The L Wolf
And Alice may be bisexual, but the way they have her being
so "anti-lesbian" while she's busy "riding the big fat weenie" is just... aside
from gross... two-dimensional and, well, grossly anti-lesbian.
Dirty bisexual. Who said that--Dana, wasn't it? Maybe Dana's a bit
jelly, too. Maybe Lara is gone for good and the rest of the season
it'll be Alice and Dana not groping and/or making poodle noises.
Yeah, for one more whole ep... You *are* going to stick around and give QAF a
chance, yes?
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
That trapeze woman was nice to save her.
Jenny runs away to the circus, (clichéd) refuge of social misfits....
Yeah... but Jenny wasn't trying for the circus. She just runs around with
anything.
Anything that swings by....
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
The difference between them is, Jenny's the type who has trouble coping
with the unexpected, and Tina isn't.
Jenny has trouble coping with anything. But she was pretty funny trying to get the
gang to tell her if she was a hundred footer. Wonder what she would have done if
they'd said yes.
Put her hands to her face, made big eyes, and said, "fuuuuuuuk."
ROTF!
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
But Shane... falling in love with Ms. Cherie Ho-bitch?? I dunno.
Shane falling in love with *anyone* without benefit of therapy is
ridiculous.
The whole setup to Shane's character is so weak it makes me spit. From free spirit
to prostitute to outright whore. But it's ok because "she's in love". Right.
Too bad. Shane had potential to be one of the more interesting
characters.
They all did. :(
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Looking forward to rewatching this ep.
Actually, I *would* like to watch it again, because when I checked into
the ng after watching it the once, I expected the place to be in
flames...at least, over traitorous Bette and the idiot Tina.
There's always next week. <g>
Have fun! :-)
A riot, a trendy, stencil, heaving cleavage prison/museum riot to be exact. :-)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by The L Wolf
One other thing. I'm tired of the way the writers have 2 women having the same
type of first kiss over and over. First, Marina follows Jenny into the bathroom
and goes for it. Then an ep or 2 later, Lara comes back around the locker room
corner and plants one on Dana. It seems that we've been seeing similar "first
kisses" ever since. MonkeyWoman practically did the same thing to Bette. Aside
from angering in Bette's case, it's become boring.
Ho hum. Hmm, time for an Indigo Girls CD or something.
Just don't sing without the CD playing, okay? ;-)
Nup, on a Motown trip today. Can't do those young Michael Jackson yelps very well.
::hee-hee woo!:: ow.

-Wolf
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-09 03:50:00 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
I laughed and laughed and laughed at them singing Closer to Fine over and
over again, because, really, is any lesbian on the planet who has not done
that?
Why? Is that a trick question? If I say I haven't, or that I only own
two Indigo Girls albums and neither of them have that song on, do I get
busted as straight...or worse, a misidentifying bisexual? ;-D
Huh, well, if you don't own a guitar, I suppose you could apply for a pass on
that requirement.
Does a fiddle count, or have I just dug myself a deeper hole?
Fiddle??! As in Dixie Chicken? /|\ LOL
Fiddle as in Eileen Ivers. If by Dixie Chicken you mean Martie
Seidel--not so much. :-P

And, LOL!...is /|\ the international symbol for chicken? :-D
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by The L Wolf
And Alice may be bisexual, but the way they have her being
so "anti-lesbian" while she's busy "riding the big fat weenie" is just... aside
from gross... two-dimensional and, well, grossly anti-lesbian.
Dirty bisexual. Who said that--Dana, wasn't it? Maybe Dana's a bit
jelly, too. Maybe Lara is gone for good and the rest of the season
it'll be Alice and Dana not groping and/or making poodle noises.
Yeah, for one more whole ep... You *are* going to stick around and give QAF a
chance, yes?
Love to, but I saw maybe the first four or five eps of series one, and
none after those. If I tried taking it up at this point, I'd be totally
lost. IAC, I wouldn't be able to support a point in discussion. I'd
say, "so," then someone would say, "otherwise, according to such
episode" that I hadn't seen. :-(

<snip>
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by The L Wolf
Ho hum. Hmm, time for an Indigo Girls CD or something.
Just don't sing without the CD playing, okay? ;-)
Nup, on a Motown trip today. Can't do those young Michael Jackson yelps very well.
::hee-hee woo!:: ow.
Stick with Al Green or Bobby Womack--they're far less dangerous. :-D

Speaking of Motown.... In an earlier post I carped about the voice used
for Pam Grier's singing in Liberally. IIRC, the dubbed voice's pitch
seemed to me to be too high. But today, the theme from The Big Doll
House (Long Time Woman) played on the car radio, and the DJ said it was
Pam Grier singing. I did not know that. The song has got to be 30+
years old, but the pitch was the same as the voice dubbed for PG in
Liberally, so. Either the voice in Liberally was PG's and it hasn't
lowered in pitch over the years as voices generally do, or, the dubbed
voice was chosen because it sounded close to PG's singing voice 30 years
ago. And, uh...I sorta think no one else finds this anywhere near as
fascinating as I do, so I'll shaddup now. :-P
l***@large
2004-04-03 22:04:45 UTC
Permalink
Tulgey Wood <***@this_address.INVALID> kindly wrote:

[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Actually, I *would* like to watch it again, because when I checked into
the ng after watching it the once, I expected the place to be in
flames...at least, over traitorous Bette and the idiot Tina.
We've known that was coming for too long... (why is Tina an idiot
again? Oh yeah, because they wrote her an idiot line.) <g>
Post by Tulgey Wood
But, my
subscription VOD isn't working and the show isn't repeated, so I'm
working off memory, and for the life of me can't recall being impressed.
Maybe tomorrow the VOD will work and I'll find I watched the wrong ep,
or at least an alternate universe version of the right one. :-P
Well see what happens when the writing is soo fricking bad that an ep
that actually has the main characters staring in it gets critical
acclaim?

Truly, there was plenty to pick on with Bette and all, but the other
ep's have been so horrid, this one was at least fun to watch [minus
that part]. As for predictable... please don't tell me you expected
*this* show to do any better?? ;-D I'd rather laugh than moan any
day. I guess since you haven't been moaning all along, it was your
turn. <BG>

***@large
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-04 00:16:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Actually, I *would* like to watch it again, because when I checked into
the ng after watching it the once, I expected the place to be in
flames...at least, over traitorous Bette and the idiot Tina.
We've known that was coming for too long... (why is Tina an idiot
again?
Only just the once, that I've noticed, anyway. But maybe I've zoned out
the other times she acted idiotic.
Post by l***@large
Oh yeah, because they wrote her an idiot line.) <g>
Yep.

<snip>
Post by l***@large
Truly, there was plenty to pick on with Bette and all, but the other
ep's have been so horrid, this one was at least fun to watch [minus
that part]. As for predictable... please don't tell me you expected
*this* show to do any better?? ;-D
No, I was just making polite conversation. ;-D
Post by l***@large
I'd rather laugh than moan any
day. I guess since you haven't been moaning all along, it was your
turn. <BG>
LOL! Actually, I only took a break from moaning last week because I was
getting sick of carping. But it was so cold and lonely in the break
room, that I was forced back to work. :-)
l***@large.com
2004-04-05 00:14:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Actually, I *would* like to watch it again, because when I checked into
the ng after watching it the once, I expected the place to be in
flames...at least, over traitorous Bette and the idiot Tina.
We've known that was coming for too long... (why is Tina an idiot
again?
Only just the once, that I've noticed, anyway. But maybe I've zoned out
the other times she acted idiotic.
Sorry.. I mean "why again?" as in 'what did you just say?'... not as in
"over and over." Though both Bette *and* Tina were idiots when (1) they
invited a strange boy to their bed (2) they had no idea if he had any
STD's including AIDS (3) had no idea what his family bg or mental health
was (3) had no idea if he would find out she had a baby, figure it was
his, and involve himself in their lives in unexpected ways (4) paid
homage to a vial of sperm by bowing to it ... shall I go on? Neh. That's
enough for one sitting without vodka or chocolate.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Oh yeah, because they wrote her an idiot line.) <g>
Yep.
<snip>
Post by l***@large
Truly, there was plenty to pick on with Bette and all, but the other
ep's have been so horrid, this one was at least fun to watch [minus
that part]. As for predictable... please don't tell me you expected
*this* show to do any better?? ;-D
No, I was just making polite conversation. ;-D
ROTF. "I like th eay you lie!" (quote from Deadwood, new western series
on HBO)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
I'd rather laugh than moan any
day. I guess since you haven't been moaning all along, it was your
turn. <BG>
LOL! Actually, I only took a break from moaning last week because I was
getting sick of carping. But it was so cold and lonely in the break
room, that I was forced back to work. :-)
Hey... if ya can't beat 'em...

get a longer stick. :-D

***@large
l***@large.com
2004-04-05 00:24:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
No, I was just making polite conversation. ;-D
ROTF. "I like th eay you lie!"
Uhhh WTF happened? That was "I like the way you lie!"

(I thought I fired the damn typist!)
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-07 03:33:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Actually, I *would* like to watch it again, because when I checked into
the ng after watching it the once, I expected the place to be in
flames...at least, over traitorous Bette and the idiot Tina.
We've known that was coming for too long... (why is Tina an idiot
again?
Only just the once, that I've noticed, anyway. But maybe I've zoned out
the other times she acted idiotic.
Sorry.. I mean "why again?" as in 'what did you just say?'... not as in
"over and over."
Gotcha. (Sorry.)
Post by l***@large.com
Though both Bette *and* Tina were idiots when (1) they
invited a strange boy to their bed (2) they had no idea if he had any
STD's including AIDS (3) had no idea what his family bg or mental health
was (3) had no idea if he would find out she had a baby, figure it was
his, and involve himself in their lives in unexpected ways (4) paid
homage to a vial of sperm by bowing to it ... shall I go on? Neh. That's
enough for one sitting without vodka or chocolate.
I have chocolate. Hershey's Kisses. Dark. :-)

But you're right. Actually, now I recall that butt-stupid threesome
thing, I'm surprised I didn't see this whole disaster looming large on
the horizon. :-(

<snip>
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Truly, there was plenty to pick on with Bette and all, but the other
ep's have been so horrid, this one was at least fun to watch [minus
that part]. As for predictable... please don't tell me you expected
*this* show to do any better?? ;-D
No, I was just making polite conversation. ;-D
ROTF. "I like th eay you lie!" (quote from Deadwood, new western series
on HBO)
I missed watching Deadwood from the beginning ('cause I don't like
Westerns, as a rule), but since you and Wolf have been raving about it I
tried watching it on the VOD, but my VOD be broken! <sob> I'll keep
trying....
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
I'd rather laugh than moan any
day. I guess since you haven't been moaning all along, it was your
turn. <BG>
LOL! Actually, I only took a break from moaning last week because I was
getting sick of carping. But it was so cold and lonely in the break
room, that I was forced back to work. :-)
Hey... if ya can't beat 'em...
get a longer stick. :-D
...change the rules. :-P
l***@large.com
2004-04-07 04:40:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
I missed watching Deadwood from the beginning ('cause I don't like
Westerns, as a rule), but since you and Wolf have been raving about it I
tried watching it on the VOD, but my VOD be broken! <sob> I'll keep
trying....
Wolf hasn't been watching closely, but she says she's going to start.
She can't get past the foul language. (Part of the uncouth nature of a
few of the main characters.) But if you appreciate a series that is put
together extremely well from the camera work to the lighting to the
dialog (aside from all the cursing which I do see as part of the
setting/character), to everything else, then give it a try. There is
also some humorous unintended subtext, come ep 3 between Charlie and
Wild Bill. (Charlie is Bill's pal and fusses over him like a wife,
wanting him to buddy up to Seth Bullock cuz he thinks Seth would be a
good influence on Bill.) Anyway, I love it. The villian, Al Swearnegen
is so great... and it's fun guessing where they're going with the plot
and characters. Everything is just SO DAMN GOOD. There are at least a
couple lines of dialog out of each episode that make me laugh out loud
and clap. I am seriously tempted to start a Deadwood ng or just use
alt.fan.tv.hbo or whatever that generic group is. I'd love discussing a
great show for a change, instead of a frustrating one!
l***@large.com
2004-04-07 05:10:51 UTC
Permalink
[...] I'd love discussing a
great show for a change, instead of a frustrating one!
I meant in addition to, not instead of. (Not that it matters since this
one ends next week.)

Though QAF starts up right after, but as much as I enjoy it, it isn't
the kind of show I'm usually driven to post over.

Deadwood would be fun though. (Wolf says we would annoy other viewers
with our making fun of subtext.) ::bang! bang!:: I'm there.
The L Wolf
2004-04-07 06:15:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large.com
[...] I'd love discussing a
great show for a change, instead of a frustrating one!
I meant in addition to, not instead of. (Not that it matters since this
one ends next week.)
Though QAF starts up right after, but as much as I enjoy it, it isn't
the kind of show I'm usually driven to post over.
::wolfslap!::

Oh, I think you might be able to find an opinion or two about it... ya think? :)
Post by l***@large.com
Deadwood would be fun though. (Wolf says we would annoy other viewers
with our making fun of subtext.) ::bang! bang!:: I'm there.
Uh-oh. There's-a gonna be a new sherrif in town... look out unsuspecting HBO
viewers everywhere. Hmm, could be fun.

-Wolf
l***@large
2004-04-07 16:51:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by The L Wolf
Post by l***@large.com
[...] I'd love discussing a
great show for a change, instead of a frustrating one!
I meant in addition to, not instead of. (Not that it matters since this
one ends next week.)
Though QAF starts up right after, but as much as I enjoy it, it isn't
the kind of show I'm usually driven to post over.
[in my best Atoloces:] "Uh... hey, I paid for an hour!"
Post by The L Wolf
Oh, I think you might be able to find an opinion or two about it... ya think? :)
Yes, and you'll be subject to every single one of them watching it
next to me. ;-D <g> [now don't be snarky!] It's the drive to post
about it that's largely absent. Maybe b/c the writers are always
putting lesbians down I don't feel much like jumping online to support
the show that way. I did post to the QAF ng maybe three times last
season when specific things happened that were really good.

But I'd be willing if the new season was good and everyone else wanted
to. (I'm a little worried about the new season actually with Justin
buzzing his hair off to look like a skinhead and joining the "Pink
Posse" to kick-basher-butt and protect Liberty Avenue. And the entire
Michael/his bf/street-kid storyline is majorly irritating.) But Brian
is always a delight. Would be hard to screw HIM up.
Post by The L Wolf
Post by l***@large.com
Deadwood would be fun though. (Wolf says we would annoy other viewers
with our making fun of subtext.) ::bang! bang!:: I'm there.
Uh-oh. There's-a gonna be a new sherrif in town... look out unsuspecting HBO
viewers everywhere. Hmm, could be fun.
Oh please please please!
::throws off Klingon boots for shit-kickers:: "Where's my cap gun!"

ALRIGHTY THEN! [pointing Joxer-esque pistol] If'n ya don't wanna play
I might just see fit ta pop a cap in yer ass!
::bang! bang!:: ::bang!:: ::click! click! click!::
Huh?
[looks down barrel]
::BANG::

[blackened lips]
HONEY! These caps are duddy!

:-D
***@large
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-18 03:09:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large.com
[...] I'd love discussing a great show for a change, instead of a
frustrating one!
[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Deadwood would be fun though. (Wolf says we would annoy other viewers
with our making fun of subtext.) ::bang! bang!:: I'm there.
alt.tv.deadwood-subtext? I'm there. ;-)
l***@large.com
2004-04-19 00:55:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
[...] I'd love discussing a great show for a change, instead of a
frustrating one!
[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Deadwood would be fun though. (Wolf says we would annoy other viewers
with our making fun of subtext.) ::bang! bang!:: I'm there.
alt.tv.deadwood-subtext? I'm there. ;-)
ROTFL!! That is too funny! After I told Wolf about your post here we
laughed and said the fans of XWP just won't die. It's like, "What show
can we subtextify next!" :-D

***@large
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-19 15:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
[...] I'd love discussing a great show for a change, instead of a
frustrating one!
Deadwood would be fun though. (Wolf says we would annoy other viewers
with our making fun of subtext.) ::bang! bang!:: I'm there.
alt.tv.deadwood-subtext? I'm there. ;-)
ROTFL!! That is too funny! After I told Wolf about your post here we
laughed and said the fans of XWP just won't die. It's like, "What show
can we subtextify next!" :-D
alt.tv.subtextification ;-D
l***@large
2004-04-19 19:33:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
[...] I'd love discussing a great show for a change, instead of a
frustrating one!
Deadwood would be fun though. (Wolf says we would annoy other viewers
with our making fun of subtext.) ::bang! bang!:: I'm there.
alt.tv.deadwood-subtext? I'm there. ;-)
ROTFL!! That is too funny! After I told Wolf about your post here we
laughed and said the fans of XWP just won't die. It's like, "What show
can we subtextify next!" :-D
alt.tv.subtextification ;-D
That's a good one!

I guess we have to decide if we want to discuss Deadwood by ourselves
or with other Deadwood fans. Making comments about subtext in DW will
not be appreciated by most of it's fans [meaning it would likely cause
B.S.]. Even in jest or for fun like we mean it. We could probably get
away with it (more so) in alt.tv.hbo b/c it's not a cohesive group
that posts there.

Or... since L-Word is over we could discuss it here and put OT like we
did in the thread... but that's not really technically correct to do
as an ongoing thing, though this ng doesn't have a lot of traffic and
won't likely be used much now that the L-Word season is over.

Plus Deadwood will end b/c L-Word starts up again... and btw it broke
records just like L-Word did as the fastest renewed show on HBO. DW
will be back for a S2. :)
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-21 04:14:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large
I guess we have to decide if we want to discuss Deadwood by ourselves
or with other Deadwood fans. Making comments about subtext in DW will
not be appreciated by most of it's fans [meaning it would likely cause
B.S.]. Even in jest or for fun like we mean it. We could probably get
away with it (more so) in alt.tv.hbo b/c it's not a cohesive group
that posts there.
I'll discuss Deadwood with anyone, as long as I don't get flamed for
posting about subtext. If you think that's likely to happen in ath,
then how do you feel about about starting a Deadwood ng for anyone who
wants to discuss subtext and the show in general
(alt.tv.deadwood-general+subtext, or something like)?
Post by l***@large
Or... since L-Word is over we could discuss it here and put OT like we
did in the thread... but that's not really technically correct to do
as an ongoing thing, though this ng doesn't have a lot of traffic and
won't likely be used much now that the L-Word season is over.
True, and I'd be willing to give it a go, unless other attlw members
protested having to deal with too many OT posts. And if there aren't
(m)any objections, then...maybe you could amend the FAQ to indicate the
group would be used for Deadwood discussion during the off-season?
Post by l***@large
Plus Deadwood will end b/c L-Word starts up again...
Convenient timing.
Post by l***@large
and btw it broke records just like L-Word did as the fastest renewed
show on HBO. DW will be back for a S2. :)
Hot-diggity! :-)
l***@large
2004-04-21 17:28:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
I guess we have to decide if we want to discuss Deadwood by ourselves
or with other Deadwood fans. Making comments about subtext in DW will
not be appreciated by most of it's fans [meaning it would likely cause
B.S.]. Even in jest or for fun like we mean it. We could probably get
away with it (more so) in alt.tv.hbo b/c it's not a cohesive group
that posts there.
I'll discuss Deadwood with anyone, as long as I don't get flamed for
posting about subtext. If you think that's likely to happen in ath,
I think it's *least* likely in ath, but it will happen sooner or later
no matter where we post, unless we start a group like the one you
suggested, alt.tv.subtextification. LOL. But that would be a hard sell
to the sysops and would get very little traffic b/c the name is not
something anyone would think to "look up" to see if it exists. If it
were eventually successful, it would be b/c it was used over a long
period of time and built a following slowly.
Post by Tulgey Wood
then how do you feel about about starting a Deadwood ng for anyone who
wants to discuss subtext and the show in general
(alt.tv.deadwood-general+subtext, or something like)?
You have to follow certain protocals with the name structure and
creation if you want sysops to add it to their newsfeed. The correct
way it would have to happen is alt.tv.deadwood first, followed by the
creation of alt.tv.deadwood-subtext later ... and only if the creation
of the latter was supported by recurring problems in the former as to
discussion of subtext.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Or... since L-Word is over we could discuss it here and put OT like we
did in the thread... but that's not really technically correct to do
as an ongoing thing, though this ng doesn't have a lot of traffic and
won't likely be used much now that the L-Word season is over.
(I really shouldn't have suggested this. I was just lazy b/c I just
created *this* ng and the season ended and we're already here...)
Post by Tulgey Wood
True, and I'd be willing to give it a go, unless other attlw members
protested having to deal with too many OT posts. And if there aren't
(m)any objections, then...maybe you could amend the FAQ to indicate the
group would be used for Deadwood discussion during the off-season?
Can't amend the FAQ as it is not in keeping with USENET protocol that
we "officially" use this ng for Deadwood. (Not that anyone is stopping
me but I am very big on following protocol because USENET is dependent
on voluntary compliance.)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Plus Deadwood will end b/c L-Word starts up again...
Convenient timing.
Yeahhhh but... we really should find another place, or create one.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
and btw it broke records just like L-Word did as the fastest renewed
show on HBO. DW will be back for a S2. :)
Hot-diggity! :-)
Cool, aye? :)

Howze about we continue the string already started here until its
natural conclusion, then start any new strings (like for next week's
episode) in alt.tv.hbo? We can give it a go there and see what
happens. We'll probably be fine for a time. Later people lurking might
get sufficiently disgusted to start flaming, but others will probably
just think the subtextual observations are funny. If it gets real
bothersome we'll come up with another plan...but by then the season
might be over anyway.

Then next season we can see what we want to do.

(I have a feeling someone will create alt.tv.deadwood pretty fast, but
our chances of surviving among all the str8 male viewers without them
feeling a need to say over and over "you perverts have to make
everyone gay!" is low imo. But hey. Maybe they'll surprise me.)

***@large
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-26 04:39:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
I guess we have to decide if we want to discuss Deadwood by ourselves
or with other Deadwood fans. Making comments about subtext in DW will
not be appreciated by most of it's fans [meaning it would likely cause
B.S.].
[snip]
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
I'll discuss Deadwood with anyone, as long as I don't get flamed for
posting about subtext. If you think that's likely to happen in ath,
I think it's *least* likely in ath, but it will happen sooner or later
no matter where we post, unless we start a group like the one you
suggested, alt.tv.subtextification. LOL.
There's rec.arts.tv. Maybe something like rec.arts.tv-subtextual (or,
as my smartarsed friend, Billie, suggests, rec.arts.tv-homotextual)? :-D
Post by l***@large
But that would be a hard sell to the sysops and would get very little
traffic b/c the name is not something anyone would think to "look up"
to see if it exists. If it were eventually successful, it would be
b/c it was used over a long period of time and built a following
slowly.
Given the amount of traffic in ngs that are dedicated to or allow this
sort of discussion (atx-s, atx-sm, attlw, etc), it'll be a very
loooooooong period of time and a very slooooooooooow buildup. :-D
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
then how do you feel about about starting a Deadwood ng for anyone who
wants to discuss subtext and the show in general
(alt.tv.deadwood-general+subtext, or something like)?
You have to follow certain protocals with the name structure and
creation if you want sysops to add it to their newsfeed. The correct
way it would have to happen is alt.tv.deadwood first, followed by the
creation of alt.tv.deadwood-subtext later ... and only if the creation
of the latter was supported by recurring problems in the former as to
discussion of subtext.
Would the best scenario be if the creator of alt.tv.deadwood put a
statement in the FAQ to the effect 'subtext is allowed and encouraged?'

[snip]
Post by l***@large
Howze about we continue the string already started here until its
natural conclusion, then start any new strings (like for next week's
episode) in alt.tv.hbo? We can give it a go there and see what
happens. We'll probably be fine for a time. Later people lurking might
get sufficiently disgusted to start flaming, but others will probably
just think the subtextual observations are funny. If it gets real
bothersome we'll come up with another plan...but by then the season
might be over anyway.
Well.... You go first. ;-P

I read a bit in ath this afternoon, and I came away with the idea that a
handful of newcomers posting exclusively on a single, narrow topic might
not be so well received. Also, more than a few who've posted on
Deadwood apparently aren't capable of detecting subtle nuances in the
characterizations at all (Swearengen was described by one as a 19th
century version of Saddam Hussein).
Post by l***@large
Then next season we can see what we want to do.
Sounds like a sort of plan. :-D
Post by l***@large
(I have a feeling someone will create alt.tv.deadwood pretty fast,
Wouldn't it be nice if a subtext-friendly person beat 'em to it (hint
hint)? ;-)
Post by l***@large
but our chances of surviving among all the str8 male viewers without
them feeling a need to say over and over "you perverts have to make
everyone gay!" is low imo. But hey. Maybe they'll surprise me.)
They won't need to say it over and over to me. Once is enough, and I'm
outta there. Call me a hippie, but I'm over being on the receiving end
of bad vibes.
l***@large.com
2004-04-28 03:13:39 UTC
Permalink
[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
There's rec.arts.tv. Maybe something like rec.arts.tv-subtextual (or,
as my smartarsed friend, Billie, suggests, rec.arts.tv-homotextual)? :-D
ROTF! And so appropoe. If I had time to baby a ng like that into
propagation I would. But we're barely posting *here* once a week.

[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
but our chances of surviving among all the str8 male viewers without
them feeling a need to say over and over "you perverts have to make
everyone gay!" is low imo. But hey. Maybe they'll surprise me.)
They won't need to say it over and over to me. Once is enough, and I'm
outta there. Call me a hippie, but I'm over being on the receiving end
of bad vibes.
You really like Alice's line there, dontcha! LOL. Well, HIPPIE, methinks
as long as this group just got created and no one's really using it, and
L-Word was taken off On Demand... it shouldn't cause problems to just
post here. Only thing is, we won't get any other posters other than
those already present, so I hope you don't get bored. ;)

Wolf and I were talking the other day saying we should use different
nick's to discuss Deadwood. (She's nearly caught up and will be chiming
in too.) Since Coyote has been an online nick of mine for many years,
I'm gonna be "Calamity Coyote." And Wolf wants to be "Trixie Wolf". LOL.

And youuuuu???

Calamity Coyote
::bang!bang!::
Tulgey Wood
2004-05-02 21:53:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
There's rec.arts.tv. Maybe something like rec.arts.tv-subtextual (or,
as my smartarsed friend, Billie, suggests, rec.arts.tv-homotextual)? :-D
ROTF! And so appropoe. If I had time to baby a ng like that into
propagation I would.
Yeah, that *would* be a lot of work.
Post by l***@large.com
But we're barely posting *here* once a week.
I'll get better about it once summer starts, I think. Spring is a
really busy time for me. How many more eps of Deadwood remain to be
aired?
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
but our chances of surviving among all the str8 male viewers without
them feeling a need to say over and over "you perverts have to make
everyone gay!" is low imo. But hey. Maybe they'll surprise me.)
They won't need to say it over and over to me. Once is enough, and I'm
outta there. Call me a hippie, but I'm over being on the receiving end
of bad vibes.
You really like Alice's line there, dontcha!
Call me a hippie, but. (A friend has used it to such excess over the
years that it's become a generic disclaimer between us and the pack we
run with. :-D Alice's remark just pushed it into my posts to this
forum...unfortunately.)
Post by l***@large.com
LOL. Well, HIPPIE, methinks as long as this group just got created and
no one's really using it, and L-Word was taken off On Demand... it
shouldn't cause problems to just post here. Only thing is, we won't
get any other posters other than those already present, so I hope you
don't get bored. ;)
I won't if you won't. ;-P
Post by l***@large.com
Wolf and I were talking the other day saying we should use different
nick's to discuss Deadwood. (She's nearly caught up and will be chiming
in too.) Since Coyote has been an online nick of mine for many years,
I'm gonna be "Calamity Coyote." And Wolf wants to be "Trixie Wolf". LOL.
LOL!!
Post by l***@large.com
And youuuuu???
Oh, blast. I was doing good to come up with Tulgey Wood. ;-) How about
Tulgey Deadwood? :-D Or, you could always call me a hippie. ;-P
Calamity Coyote ()
2004-05-04 00:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
There's rec.arts.tv. Maybe something like rec.arts.tv-subtextual (or,
as my smartarsed friend, Billie, suggests, rec.arts.tv-homotextual)? :-D
ROTF! And so appropoe. If I had time to baby a ng like that into
propagation I would.
Yeah, that *would* be a lot of work.
Post by l***@large.com
But we're barely posting *here* once a week.
I'll get better about it once summer starts, I think. Spring is a
really busy time for me. How many more eps of Deadwood remain to be
aired?
Don't know. No time to go look! <ah-ooga>
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
but our chances of surviving among all the str8 male viewers without
them feeling a need to say over and over "you perverts have to make
everyone gay!" is low imo. But hey. Maybe they'll surprise me.)
They won't need to say it over and over to me. Once is enough, and I'm
outta there. Call me a hippie, but I'm over being on the receiving end
of bad vibes.
You really like Alice's line there, dontcha!
Call me a hippie, but. (A friend has used it to such excess over the
years that it's become a generic disclaimer between us and the pack we
run with. :-D Alice's remark just pushed it into my posts to this
forum...unfortunately.)
I love being reminded of Alice. I think it's funny.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
LOL. Well, HIPPIE, methinks as long as this group just got created and
no one's really using it, and L-Word was taken off On Demand... it
shouldn't cause problems to just post here. Only thing is, we won't
get any other posters other than those already present, so I hope you
don't get bored. ;)
I won't if you won't. ;-P
Well, I WILL if you don't POST! At least once a &^%$#*! week!
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Wolf and I were talking the other day saying we should use different
nick's to discuss Deadwood. (She's nearly caught up and will be chiming
in too.) Since Coyote has been an online nick of mine for many years,
I'm gonna be "Calamity Coyote." And Wolf wants to be "Trixie Wolf". LOL.
LOL!!
Post by l***@large.com
And youuuuu???
Oh, blast. I was doing good to come up with Tulgey Wood. ;-) How about
Tulgey Deadwood? :-D Or, you could always call me a hippie. ;-P
Tulgey Deadwood? TOO EASY! :-D

Tulgey DeadWood. There. That's harder.

:-P
Calamity Coyote
Tulgey Wood
2004-05-09 18:17:50 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
methinks as long as this group just got created and no one's really
using it, and L-Word was taken off On Demand... it shouldn't cause
problems to just post here. Only thing is, we won't get any other
posters other than those already present, so I hope you don't get
bored. ;)
I won't if you won't. ;-P
Well, I WILL if you don't POST! At least once a &^%$#*! week!
I *do* post at least once a &^%$#*! week!
^^^^^^^
I don't believe this is included in The Deadwood
Dictionary o' Cussin'. ;-P
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Wolf and I were talking the other day saying we should use different
nick's to discuss Deadwood. (She's nearly caught up and will be chiming
in too.) Since Coyote has been an online nick of mine for many years,
I'm gonna be "Calamity Coyote." And Wolf wants to be "Trixie Wolf". LOL.
LOL!!
And youuuuu???
Oh, blast. I was doing good to come up with Tulgey Wood. ;-) How about
Tulgey Deadwood? :-D Or, you could always call me a hippie. ;-P
Tulgey Deadwood? TOO EASY! :-D
Tulgey DeadWood. There. That's harder.
Okay--it's more online-y. :-D And here's my Deadwood vamp persona:
Tulgey UnDeadWood. <snort>
Calamity Coyote ()
2004-05-11 21:18:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
methinks as long as this group just got created and no one's really
using it, and L-Word was taken off On Demand... it shouldn't cause
problems to just post here. Only thing is, we won't get any other
posters other than those already present, so I hope you don't get
bored. ;)
I won't if you won't. ;-P
Well, I WILL if you don't POST! At least once a &^%$#*! week!
I *do* post at least once a &^%$#*! week!
^^^^^^^
Well it don't FEEL like once a &^%$#*! week!
Post by Tulgey Wood
I don't believe this is included in The Deadwood
Dictionary o' Cussin'. ;-P
I believe you're right!

[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Oh, blast. I was doing good to come up with Tulgey Wood. ;-) How about
Tulgey Deadwood? :-D Or, you could always call me a hippie. ;-P
Tulgey Deadwood? TOO EASY! :-D
Tulgey DeadWood. There. That's harder.
Tulgey UnDeadWood. <snort>
Very fucking vampirically funny!

Calamity Coyote
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-18 03:07:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
I missed watching Deadwood from the beginning ('cause I don't like
Westerns, as a rule), but since you and Wolf have been raving about it I
tried watching it on the VOD, but my VOD be broken! <sob> I'll keep
trying....
Wolf hasn't been watching closely, but she says she's going to start.
She can't get past the foul language. (Part of the uncouth nature of a
few of the main characters.)
There are three "cherce" words repeated ad nauseam for no apparent
reason other than the writers are just happy to be writing uncensored
dialog and aren't able to control their exuberance: cocksucker, cunt,
and all possible representations and conjugations of fuck. IMO, they
need to cut back on the use of those somewhat--they *are* overused. If
they're going for realism, they're missing the mark. Fuck this fuckin'
that, cocksucker this cocksucker that, cunt this cunt that--it distracts
from the dialog, and the repetition is annoying. Even so, the overused
eff word and etc, and a bit of historical inaccuracy are really the
show's only flaws. :-)
Post by l***@large.com
But if you appreciate a series that is put together extremely well
from the camera work to the lighting to the dialog (aside from all
the cursing which I do see as part of the setting/character), to
everything else, then give it a try.
I did. Watched all four eps in one go. Looking forward to the next.
Post by l***@large.com
There is also some humorous unintended subtext, come ep 3 between
Charlie and Wild Bill. (Charlie is Bill's pal and fusses over him
like a wife, wanting him to buddy up to Seth Bullock cuz he thinks
Seth would be a good influence on Bill.)
Yeah, I see it. And since episode one, I've seen subtext between Seth
and Sol, as well.
Post by l***@large.com
Anyway, I love it. The villian, Al Swearnegen is so great...
Ian McShane! You could have told me he was in it and said no more. :-)
The Swearengen character is complex, and McShane has every nuance
nailed. The characters are all quite good, and the casting is
excellent. Brad Dourif's doctor is one of the best I've seen on TV. In
episode one, when he poked a probe through that guy's head to trace a
bullet trajectory, I just *knew* I would enjoy the series. :-D
Post by l***@large.com
and it's fun guessing where they're going with the plot and
characters.
The fictional ones, anyway. ;-)
Post by l***@large.com
Everything is just SO DAMN GOOD. There are at least a couple lines of
dialog out of each episode that make me laugh out loud and clap.
Yep. One of my favorites (or at least the one that goes through my head
like a tune that can't be got rid of) is when Robin Weigert says to the
hugely creepy Brad Dourif, "You got a dark turna mind." LOL!!
Post by l***@large.com
I am seriously tempted to start a Deadwood ng or just use
alt.fan.tv.hbo or whatever that generic group is. I'd love discussing
a great show for a change, instead of a frustrating one!
Oh, so would I. Let us know if you do, so interested parties can trail
you over. :-)
l***@large.com
2004-04-19 00:55:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
I missed watching Deadwood from the beginning ('cause I don't like
Westerns, as a rule), but since you and Wolf have been raving about it I
tried watching it on the VOD, but my VOD be broken! <sob> I'll keep
trying....
Wolf hasn't been watching closely, but she says she's going to start.
She can't get past the foul language. (Part of the uncouth nature of a
few of the main characters.)
There are three "cherce" words repeated ad nauseam for no apparent
reason other than the writers are just happy to be writing uncensored
dialog and aren't able to control their exuberance: cocksucker, cunt,
and all possible representations and conjugations of fuck. IMO, they
need to cut back on the use of those somewhat--they *are* overused. If
they're going for realism, they're missing the mark. Fuck this fuckin'
that, cocksucker this cocksucker that, cunt this cunt that--it distracts
from the dialog, and the repetition is annoying.
I agree that it is distracting and annoying, but I do think it is to
show the crude nature of the times. If they cursed a little it wouldn't
mean anything to us b/c we hear cursing all the time. I think it is
intended to annoy and offend us.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Even so, the overused
eff word and etc, and a bit of historical inaccuracy are really the
show's only flaws. :-)
You mean the cursing is historically inaccurate, or ??
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
But if you appreciate a series that is put together extremely well
from the camera work to the lighting to the dialog (aside from all
the cursing which I do see as part of the setting/character), to
everything else, then give it a try.
I did. Watched all four eps in one go. Looking forward to the next.
YAY!! I couldn't believe what happened to Bill! I was shocked, even
though there was plenty of foreshadowing. I wonder if Charlie gets back
tonight.

But I told Wolf a couple weeks ago that I bet Alma would kick her
laudenum habit and become a force in the town. Now that Eli's dead
(recognize Eli from XWP as Alma's now-dead Brahm Garrett?) it looks like
that's happening.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
There is also some humorous unintended subtext, come ep 3 between
Charlie and Wild Bill. (Charlie is Bill's pal and fusses over him
like a wife, wanting him to buddy up to Seth Bullock cuz he thinks
Seth would be a good influence on Bill.)
Yeah, I see it.
I loved it when Charlie got Bill to agree to dinner with Seth and Sol,
then came over to their tent to invite them and said, "I feel like I
shoulda brung some posies..." LOL!! I love this show.
Post by Tulgey Wood
And since episode one, I've seen subtext between Seth
and Sol, as well.
Yeah, especially when they made their agreement with Al and were walking
away to go build their store, and looked at each other as they were
crossing the street. Seth patted Sol's back and it was like, "We get to
build our dream, honey!"
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Anyway, I love it. The villian, Al Swearnegen is so great...
Ian McShane! You could have told me he was in it and said no more. :-)
What do you know him from?
Post by Tulgey Wood
The Swearengen character is complex, and McShane has every nuance
nailed. The characters are all quite good, and the casting is
excellent. Brad Dourif's doctor is one of the best I've seen on TV. In
episode one, when he poked a probe through that guy's head to trace a
bullet trajectory, I just *knew* I would enjoy the series. :-D
Brad Dourif has always been one of my favorite actors. I was so glad to
see him in the cast.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
and it's fun guessing where they're going with the plot and
characters.
The fictional ones, anyway. ;-)
Seth is based on a real sheriff from Montana. They did a lot of research
to make this show. There's a "Making Of Deadwood" type thing you should
watch if you can catch it. The scenarios -- the times and the kind of
shit that went down in those little gold-mining towns -- is all very
realistic actually. More so than most crap we watch. ;)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Everything is just SO DAMN GOOD. There are at least a couple lines of
dialog out of each episode that make me laugh out loud and clap.
Yep. One of my favorites (or at least the one that goes through my head
like a tune that can't be got rid of) is when Robin Weigert says to the
hugely creepy Brad Dourif, "You got a dark turna mind." LOL!!
Ha! You think Doc is hugely creepy? Or Brad? He *usually* plays hugely
creepy characters, but this is the first UNcreepy guy he's ever played
imo! I love the doc. He too smart to not be scared shitless half the
time, but he won't take shit from anyone either.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
I am seriously tempteto start a Deadwood ng or just use
alt.fan.tv.hbo or whatever that generic group is. I'd love discussing
a great show for a change, instead of a frustrating one!
Oh, so would I. Let us know if you do, so interested parties can trail
you over. :-)
Let's do! I'll go look at the generic hbo ng tomorrow to see if it's
empty.

***@large
l***@large.com
2004-04-19 03:24:26 UTC
Permalink
[...] He too smart to not be scared shitless
uh... that's Indian-speak there, btw,
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-19 15:41:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large.com
[...] He too smart to not be scared shitless
uh... that's Indian-speak there, btw,
You smokem loco weed?
l***@large
2004-04-19 19:47:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
[...] He too smart to not be scared shitless
uh... that's Indian-speak there, btw,
You smokem loco weed?
LOL! You'd think so, wouldn't you? No, it's called, "Hurry and get
these things posted without any once-over cause Sopranos is about to
start!" which was the mode I was in last night.

Sundays has turned into Must See TV night, with Sopranos, QAF, and
Deadwood. I must say the season opener of QAF was disappointing. I
hate the Hunter storyline, and everyone is unhappy for some reason...
Brian's in a bad space, Emmet and Ted are fnarked... there's nothing
fun and juicy going on. They need to lighten it up and get back to
doing something interesting. Plus, it's not nearly as nice watching a
bunch of men as it is watching a bunch of women. I actually missed
L-Word. ;)
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-21 04:16:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large
Sundays has turned into Must See TV night, with Sopranos, QAF, and
Deadwood. I must say the season opener of QAF was disappointing. I
hate the Hunter storyline, and everyone is unhappy for some reason...
Brian's in a bad space, Emmet and Ted are fnarked... there's nothing
fun and juicy going on. They need to lighten it up and get back to
doing something interesting. Plus, it's not nearly as nice watching a
bunch of men as it is watching a bunch of women. I actually missed
L-Word. ;)
Ya know...me, too. :-D (*When* did you say S2 is supposed to start?
2005?) =O
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-19 15:40:06 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Wolf hasn't been watching closely, but she says she's going to start.
She can't get past the foul language. (Part of the uncouth nature of a
few of the main characters.)
There are three "cherce" words repeated ad nauseam for no apparent
reason other than the writers are just happy to be writing uncensored
dialog and aren't able to control their exuberance: cocksucker, cunt,
and all possible representations and conjugations of fuck. IMO, they
need to cut back on the use of those somewhat--they *are* overused. If
they're going for realism, they're missing the mark. Fuck this fuckin'
that, cocksucker this cocksucker that, cunt this cunt that--it distracts
from the dialog, and the repetition is annoying.
I agree that it is distracting and annoying, but I do think it is to
show the crude nature of the times. If they cursed a little it wouldn't
mean anything to us b/c we hear cursing all the time. I think it is
intended to annoy and offend us.
I'm not fuckin' offended, just fuckin' annoyed. ;-P
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Even so, the overused eff word and etc, and a bit of historical
inaccuracy are really the show's only flaws. :-)
You mean the cursing is historically inaccurate, or ??
I meant there are some extremely minor historical inaccuracies (such as,
Hickok was shot in the head, not in the back) that I'm more than happy
to pass off as artistic license. But I have wondered if the swear words
are accurate to the period. The three biggies all have English origins
and are quite old, but I wonder when they came into common usage as
vulgarities amongst the unwashed masses. I wouldn't have thought before
the 20th century, thought I could (and probably do) have it wrong.
Occasionally I'll hear someone use a word (not necessarily a swear word)
that I *know* wasn't in use in 1876 and it pulls me right out of the
scene. For example, in episode four, I think, Al Swear-Engine said
"skanky."
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
But if you appreciate a series that is put together extremely well
from the camera work to the lighting to the dialog (aside from all
the cursing which I do see as part of the setting/character), to
everything else, then give it a try.
I did. Watched all four eps in one go. Looking forward to the next.
YAY!! I couldn't believe what happened to Bill! I was shocked, even
though there was plenty of foreshadowing.
And plenty of spoilers in American history books. :-) The big mystery
that remains still is why Bill didn't refuse to sit with his back to the
door. Deadwood's dramatization of Hickok as a sad, tired, old man who
believed he'd arrived at the end of things explained it very well, I
thought.
Post by l***@large.com
I wonder if Charlie gets back tonight.
Supposedly, he put the funeral together, so if they're sticking to the
books...he wouldn't have left Deadwood in the first place, but what the
hey? :-P
Post by l***@large.com
But I told Wolf a couple weeks ago that I bet Alma would kick her
laudenum habit and become a force in the town. Now that Eli's dead
(recognize Eli from XWP as Alma's now-dead Brahm Garrett?)
Yeah. Took me a few minutes to place him onaccounta the no beard, and
he looked a right pouf. :-D
Post by l***@large.com
it looks like that's happening.
Thankfully. Now her twit of a husband is out of the picture, she can
stop doping and start living. Maybe she'll take up with Jane.

[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
I loved it when Charlie got Bill to agree to dinner with Seth and Sol,
then came over to their tent to invite them and said, "I feel like I
shoulda brung some posies..." LOL!! I love this show.
LOL! Yeah, I loved that line.
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
And since episode one, I've seen subtext between Seth
and Sol, as well.
Yeah, especially when they made their agreement with Al and were walking
away to go build their store, and looked at each other as they were
crossing the street. Seth patted Sol's back and it was like, "We get to
build our dream, honey!"
That's right! Howsabout when Sol reminded Seth to button his fly? Too
funny.
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Anyway, I love it. The villian, Al Swearnegen is so great...
Ian McShane! You could have told me he was in it and said no more. :-)
What do you know him from?
Mainly from the excellent Lovejoy series (aired in the US on A&E), and
more recently in a series called Trust (aired in the US on BBCA, I
think). Otherwise, various and sundry British television series too
numerous to mention, and an occasional feature film. The first thing I
saw him in was a feature called If It's Tuesday, This Must Be
Belgium--he played a tour guide called Charlie. Not a memorable film,
but he was young and full of exuberance and charisma and I took an
immediate shine to him (I was nine--go figure). Check out his cv at
IMDb if you're interested.

[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Seth is based on a real sheriff from Montana. They did a lot of research
to make this show. There's a "Making Of Deadwood" type thing you should
watch if you can catch it. The scenarios -- the times and the kind of
shit that went down in those little gold-mining towns -- is all very
realistic actually. More so than most crap we watch. ;)
Probably very true. Have you seen Ravenous, BTW? (Jeffrey Jones--the
newspaper guy in Deadwood--is in it.) It came out about four or five
years ago. I saw it on cable--don't recall seeing promos for it in
theaters. Anyway, it's really quite funny and also sorta gross, but
very realistic and true to the times. Check for it at the video store
if you're interested (but don't watch it during dinner).
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Everything is just SO DAMN GOOD. There are at least a couple lines of
dialog out of each episode that make me laugh out loud and clap.
Yep. One of my favorites (or at least the one that goes through my head
like a tune that can't be got rid of) is when Robin Weigert says to the
hugely creepy Brad Dourif, "You got a dark turna mind." LOL!!
Ha! You think Doc is hugely creepy? Or Brad?
Brad, but Brad makes the doc creepier than he would be were he played by
someone else. He walks about with his shoulders hunched looking like a
carrion bird. Love it. :-)
Post by l***@large.com
He *usually* plays hugely creepy characters, but this is the first
UNcreepy guy he's ever played imo!
Dourif makes a *very* creepy doctor. If I came to and saw him standing
over me with a medical implement.... =O
Post by l***@large.com
I love the doc. He too smart to not be scared shitless half the time,
but he won't take shit from anyone either.
I love the doc, and I love Al Swearengen. And Jane and Alma. And Seth
and Sol. And Bill and Charlie. What a party! :-)
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
I am seriously tempteto start a Deadwood ng or just use
alt.fan.tv.hbo or whatever that generic group is. I'd love discussing
a great show for a change, instead of a frustrating one!
Oh, so would I. Let us know if you do, so interested parties can trail
you over. :-)
Let's do! I'll go look at the generic hbo ng tomorrow to see if it's
empty.
Great!
l***@large
2004-04-19 19:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
re: The language
I agree that it is distracting and annoying, but I do think it is to
show the crude nature of the times. If they cursed a little it wouldn't
mean anything to us b/c we hear cursing all the time. I think it is
intended to annoy and offend us.
I'm not fuckin' offended, just fuckin' annoyed. ;-P
I know -- it's very fucking distracting. ;-D
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Tulgey Wood
Even so, the overused eff word and etc, and a bit of historical
inaccuracy are really the show's only flaws. :-)
You mean the cursing is historically inaccurate, or ??
I meant there are some extremely minor historical inaccuracies (such as,
Hickok was shot in the head, not in the back) that I'm more than happy
to pass off as artistic license. But I have wondered if the swear words
are accurate to the period. The three biggies all have English origins
and are quite old, but I wonder when they came into common usage as
vulgarities amongst the unwashed masses. I wouldn't have thought before
the 20th century, thought I could (and probably do) have it wrong.
Oddly, swearing is not beholden to the normal rules of accuracy in
Hollywood. "Updating" the dialog to some extent in order to put across
an impression is acceptable in terms of story-writing. The idea behind
that is that if we were to hear today, what were considered curse
words of *their* day, some would be meaningless to us while others are
no longer offensive or have taken on modern meanings significantly
different from the native or period-meaning. Thus character would be
misrepresented to the modern viewer (dialog *is* character) if period
dialog was used exclusively. Therefore it is acceptable in Hollywood
to use certain modern swear words (not modern slang but words that
have "a blank origin" to most viewers).

But most people don't know this so a lot of DW fans have brought this
up (b/c the show goes out of its way to be authentic). But it makes
sense once you think about it.

Last night I ran some Google searches and found this show being
discussed everywhere from alt.philosophy to rec.arts. to
alt.tv.sopranos. Dozens and dozens of different groups. It's cutting
across so many lines. Many if not most of the headings were about the
language being annoying <g> and the historical record of when Hickock
got to Deadwood and when exactly he was shot. (One day after Seth
arrived according to history I guess.) I am SO glad I didn't read
those spoilers in school. <g!> Don't tell me what happens to anyone!
Post by Tulgey Wood
Occasionally I'll hear someone use a word (not necessarily a swear word)
that I *know* wasn't in use in 1876 and it pulls me right out of the
scene. For example, in episode four, I think, Al Swear-Engine said
"skanky."
Hmm... I don't remember him saying it, but I largely don't listen to
the swearing. Or rather it just goes right past me b/c I tune "past
it" into other details. But I wonder if they'll ratchet it back a bit
since it seems to be an annoyance factor for *everyone*... or of
they'll force fans to get used to it so that we come to accept it
within the context of this mining town and its characters and are no
longer distracted by it.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
But if you appreciate a series that is put together extremely well
from the camera work to the lighting to the dialog (aside from all
the cursing which I do see as part of the setting/character), to
everything else, then give it a try.
I did. Watched all four eps in one go. Looking forward to the next.
YAY!! I couldn't believe what happened to Bill! I was shocked, even
though there was plenty of foreshadowing.
And plenty of spoilers in American history books. :-)
So I learned!
Post by Tulgey Wood
The big mystery
that remains still is why Bill didn't refuse to sit with his back to the
door. Deadwood's dramatization of Hickok as a sad, tired, old man who
believed he'd arrived at the end of things explained it very well, I
thought.
Oh yeah. If you notice he never sat with his back to the door in any
previous game. It was always against the wall. Plus he began to
provoke Jack. Intensely. I believe he knew Jack was dumb enough to
come after him -- and wanted him to. He was a man ready to die and set
himself up. He sat with his back to the door purposely. And when Jack
walked in -- did you catch the quick shot of Bill's eyes moving to the
side?...yet he didn't turn around. He knew who walked in. He knew if
he turned, Jack would be too scared to shoot him, or he would draw and
kill Jack.

He clearly wanted to die. He even made a point of saying goodbye to
everyone who mattered to him. Even Seth.

[Also, remember when he asked Alma why she felt responsible for her
husband's downfall, and she said, "I believe all wives feel partially
to blame for whatever befalls their husbands"? It was after that he
had his talk with Charile when he asked him to let him go to hell his
own way. Then he wrote his wife. He obviously made the connection and
didn't want to be an embarassment to her. And knew if he lived -- he
would be. That's how I read it anyway.]
Post by Tulgey Wood
I wonder if Charlie gets back tonight.
Supposedly, he put the funeral together, so if they're sticking to the
books...he wouldn't have left Deadwood in the first place, but what the
hey? :-P
He gets back next week. Pooey. I wanted to see him last night. I
wanted everyone to get together and emote for Bill. Blubber awhile.
Damn macho westerns. <g> At least Jane shed some tears. (I laughed so
hard when she was walking to the river to get water for the delerious
dying guy and told him to shut the fuck up with the apologies or he
wouldn't get a drop!) --But will she get ill next??
Post by Tulgey Wood
But I told Wolf a couple weeks ago that I bet Alma would kick her
laudenum habit and become a force in the town. Now that Eli's dead
(recognize Eli from XWP as Alma's now-dead Brahm Garrett?)
Yeah. Took me a few minutes to place him onaccounta the no beard, and
he looked a right pouf. :-D
What a twinkle boy he was. I bet Dan wanted to nail his ass. ;-D
Post by Tulgey Wood
it looks like that's happening.
Thankfully. Now her twit of a husband is out of the picture, she can
stop doping and start living. Maybe she'll take up with Jane.
My my! They are an awesome sight together in the same room. Talk about
polar opposites. They look like they're from two different species. I
like how Alma gets along with anyone. Not that she approves of
everyone, or buddies up to them like a gf, but she goes along to get
along, and doesn't seem to judge.
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by Tulgey Wood
And since episode one, I've seen subtext between Seth
and Sol, as well.
Yeah, especially when they made their agreement with Al and were walking
away to go build their store, and looked at each other as they were
crossing the street. Seth patted Sol's back and it was like, "We get to
build our dream, honey!"
That's right! Howsabout when Sol reminded Seth to button his fly? Too
funny.
And last night Seth asked him to pack a bag for him. :) They're really
cute together. One macho and angry -- the other sweet and practical.
The male versions of Xena and Gabrielle! ;-D

What about when Seth went into the slaughter house (note: the language
I've gotten past but the gutted animals hanging everywhere is more
authenticism than I need... I hope there aren't many scenes like last
night's) anyway when Seth grabbed Jack by the neck and Jack accused
Seth and Bill of being lovers! I look forward to Seth catching up with
Jack and doing what the jury didn't. (Wasn't that horse Jack rode out
on beautiful?)
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Seth is based on a real sheriff from Montana. They did a lot of research
to make this show. There's a "Making Of Deadwood" type thing you should
watch if you can catch it. The scenarios -- the times and the kind of
shit that went down in those little gold-mining towns -- is all very
realistic actually. More so than most crap we watch. ;)
Probably very true. Have you seen Ravenous, BTW? (Jeffrey Jones--the
newspaper guy in Deadwood--is in it.)
Can't say I have.
Post by Tulgey Wood
It came out about four or five
years ago. I saw it on cable--don't recall seeing promos for it in
theaters. Anyway, it's really quite funny and also sorta gross, but
very realistic and true to the times. Check for it at the video store
if you're interested (but don't watch it during dinner).
Will do.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Everything is just SO DAMN GOOD. There are at least a couple lines of
dialog out of each episode that make me laugh out loud and clap.
Yep. One of my favorites (or at least the one that goes through my head
like a tune that can't be got rid of) is when Robin Weigert says to the
hugely creepy Brad Dourif, "You got a dark turna mind." LOL!!
Ha! You think Doc is hugely creepy? Or Brad?
Brad, but Brad makes the doc creepier than he would be were he played by
someone else. He walks about with his shoulders hunched looking like a
carrion bird. Love it. :-)
Great description! To me, I see the Doc as an honest, decent man in a
hellhole of vipers, who is always "hunched" against the evil forces at
work all around him. I like that he isn't scared of anyone when it
comes to protecting the health of a patient or even the town. I liked
the way he stood up to Sigh Toliver, making him send someone for a
vaccine for smallpox.

I wonder why they picked so many names that begin with "S" or if they
were real and they didn't have a choice. Seth, Sol, Sigh, Swearengen.
Post by Tulgey Wood
He *usually* plays hugely creepy characters, but this is the first
UNcreepy guy he's ever played imo!
Dourif makes a *very* creepy doctor. If I came to and saw him standing
over me with a medical implement.... =O
LOL!! I would hang with the Doc any day. Medical implement or not. ;)
Post by Tulgey Wood
I love the doc. He too smart to not be scared shitless half the time,
but he won't take shit from anyone either.
I love the doc, and I love Al Swearengen. And Jane and Alma. And Seth
and Sol. And Bill and Charlie. What a party! :-)
Waaaaa... Bill's dead!
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
I am seriously tempteto start a Deadwood ng or just use
alt.fan.tv.hbo or whatever that generic group is. I'd love discussing
a great show for a change, instead of a frustrating one!
Oh, so would I. Let us know if you do, so interested parties can trail
you over. :-)
Let's do! I'll go look at the generic hbo ng tomorrow to see if it's
empty.
Great!
There are some discussions at alt.tv.hbo. But most of the interesting
ones are talking place among regulars who know each other in 'private'
ng's spread out all over USENET. Since alt.tv.hbo is a catch-all
group, it doesn't really have "regulars" so it's strangers talking to
each other and that's never as dynamic. KWIM? (Not that it matters
much, just saying.) I'm sure there are tons of message boards, but
those suck.

***@large
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-21 04:15:54 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
the overused eff word and etc, and a bit of historical inaccuracy
are really the show's only flaws. :-)
You mean the cursing is historically inaccurate, or ??
I meant there are some extremely minor historical inaccuracies (such as,
Hickok was shot in the head, not in the back) that I'm more than happy
to pass off as artistic license.
And it looks like I won't have to do. In this week's ep, Bill's corpse
had a hole in its face exactly where the RL exit wound would have been,
so. (I could have sworn McCall shot him in the back last week.)
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
But I have wondered if the swear words are accurate to the period.
The three biggies all have English origins and are quite old, but I
wonder when they came into common usage as vulgarities amongst the
unwashed masses. I wouldn't have thought before the 20th century,
thought I could (and probably do) have it wrong.
Oddly, swearing is not beholden to the normal rules of accuracy in
Hollywood.
Just like everything else, it seems. :-D
Post by l***@large
"Updating" the dialog to some extent in order to put across
an impression is acceptable in terms of story-writing. The idea behind
that is that if we were to hear today, what were considered curse
words of *their* day, some would be meaningless to us while others are
no longer offensive or have taken on modern meanings significantly
different from the native or period-meaning. Thus character would be
misrepresented to the modern viewer (dialog *is* character) if period
dialog was used exclusively. Therefore it is acceptable in Hollywood
to use certain modern swear words (not modern slang but words that
have "a blank origin" to most viewers).
But most people don't know this so a lot of DW fans have brought this
up (b/c the show goes out of its way to be authentic). But it makes
sense once you think about it.
It makes sense, but I wonder what words in the 19th century were equal
in vulgarity to fuck, cocksucker, and cunt? They'd have to be pretty
unrecognizable as swear words for 21st century English speakers not to
understand their meaning. And even then, tone of voice goes a long way
to convey meaning, even when cultural definition is lost. A good
example of this is the use of smeg in place of fuck in the dialog of the
Red Dwarf comedy series.
Post by l***@large
Last night I ran some Google searches and found this show being
discussed everywhere from alt.philosophy to rec.arts. to
alt.tv.sopranos. Dozens and dozens of different groups. It's cutting
across so many lines. Many if not most of the headings were about the
language being annoying <g> and the historical record of when Hickock
got to Deadwood and when exactly he was shot. (One day after Seth
arrived according to history I guess.) I am SO glad I didn't read
those spoilers in school. <g!> Don't tell me what happens to anyone!
Or even what *doesn't* happen? IOW, is it bad spoilers you don't want
to know, or all spoilers? IAC, what's happening to Jack McCall *so far*
isn't what happened to him in RL, so I can't say how the show will deal
with him (apparently they've made Seth the lone avenger, and that's a
fiction).
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Occasionally I'll hear someone use a word (not necessarily a swear word)
that I *know* wasn't in use in 1876 and it pulls me right out of the
scene. For example, in episode four, I think, Al Swear-Engine said
"skanky."
Hmm... I don't remember him saying it, but I largely don't listen to
the swearing. Or rather it just goes right past me b/c I tune "past
it" into other details. But I wonder if they'll ratchet it back a bit
since it seems to be an annoyance factor for *everyone*... or of
they'll force fans to get used to it so that we come to accept it
within the context of this mining town and its characters and are no
longer distracted by it.
I'm not going to stop watching the show because of it, and I guess I can
say I'm becoming /inured/ to it.

[snip]
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
The big mystery that remains still is why Bill didn't refuse to sit
with his back to the door. Deadwood's dramatization of Hickok as a
sad, tired, old man who believed he'd arrived at the end of things
explained it very well, I thought.
Oh yeah. If you notice he never sat with his back to the door in any
previous game. It was always against the wall. Plus he began to
provoke Jack. Intensely. I believe he knew Jack was dumb enough to
come after him -- and wanted him to. He was a man ready to die and set
himself up. He sat with his back to the door purposely. And when Jack
walked in -- did you catch the quick shot of Bill's eyes moving to the
side?...
Yep.
Post by l***@large
yet he didn't turn around. He knew who walked in. He knew if he
turned, Jack would be too scared to shoot him, or he would draw and
kill Jack.
Suicide by sniveling coward.
Post by l***@large
He clearly wanted to die. He even made a point of saying goodbye to
everyone who mattered to him. Even Seth.
[Also, remember when he asked Alma why she felt responsible for her
husband's downfall, and she said, "I believe all wives feel partially
to blame for whatever befalls their husbands"? It was after that he
had his talk with Charile when he asked him to let him go to hell his
own way. Then he wrote his wife. He obviously made the connection and
didn't want to be an embarassment to her. And knew if he lived -- he
would be. That's how I read it anyway.]
I think you've got it right. Hickok was supposedly an honorable man,
and an honorable man wouldn't leave a mess for his family and friends to
clear up.
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
I wonder if Charlie gets back tonight.
Supposedly, he put the funeral together, so if they're sticking to the
books...he wouldn't have left Deadwood in the first place, but what the
hey? :-P
He gets back next week. Pooey. I wanted to see him last night. I
wanted everyone to get together and emote for Bill. Blubber awhile.
Damn macho westerns. <g>
Seth was sort of teary. McCall asked him why he was crying, and I
thought his eyes looked a little moist. (Mostly though, Seth did little
more than seethe and act sort of hormonal.) IAC, maybe they'll have a
proper wake for Bill once McCall is dealt with.
Post by l***@large
At least Jane shed some tears. (I laughed so hard when she was walking
to the river to get water for the delerious dying guy and told him to
shut the fuck up with the apologies or he wouldn't get a drop!)
That scene was really hilarious, I thought (but poor Andy was in such a
bad way that I felt sort of guilty for laughing).
Post by l***@large
--But will she get ill next??
ROT13 the following, if you want a historical spoiler:

Qba'g xabj vs fur'yy trg fvpx va gur fubj, ohg va EY fur yvirq vagb ure
svsgvrf. Bar bs gur guvatf fur'f jryy xabja sbe vf ahefvat ivpgvzf bs
Qrnqjbbq'f fznyycbk cynthr. Fur znl unir unq na vzzhavgl, be vs fur qvq
trg vyy, fur qvqa'g qvr bs fznyycbk va ure gjragvrf.
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
But I told Wolf a couple weeks ago that I bet Alma would kick her
laudenum habit and become a force in the town. Now that Eli's dead
(recognize Eli from XWP as Alma's now-dead Brahm Garrett?)
Yeah. Took me a few minutes to place him onaccounta the no beard, and
he looked a right pouf. :-D
What a twinkle boy he was. I bet Dan wanted to nail his ass. ;-D
Maybe he did. They seem to have been on the mountain for quite a few
hours before he tossed him off. :-D
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
it looks like that's happening.
Thankfully. Now her twit of a husband is out of the picture, she can
stop doping and start living. Maybe she'll take up with Jane.
My my! They are an awesome sight together in the same room. Talk about
polar opposites. They look like they're from two different species.
LOL!! You mean, like women and men?. :-P
Post by l***@large
I like how Alma gets along with anyone. Not that she approves of
everyone, or buddies up to them like a gf, but she goes along to get
along, and doesn't seem to judge.
I think she realizes she won't survive unless she goes with the flow.
She can't afford to be judgmental. She's far from her civilized home,
without family or friend, and on top of that, she's going through
addiction withdrawal. She seems to be a very strong person--taking
herself off the dope, launching an adversarial relationship with
Swearengen. I'm really beginning to like Alma a lot, and I hope she
stays in Deadwood. She can make a better life for herself there. Back
in "civilized" NY, she was nothing but property that exchanged hands
from father to husband. In Deadwood, I think she can be her own woman.
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
And since episode one, I've seen subtext between Seth
and Sol, as well.
Yeah, especially when they made their agreement with Al and were walking
away to go build their store, and looked at each other as they were
crossing the street. Seth patted Sol's back and it was like, "We get to
build our dream, honey!"
That's right! Howsabout when Sol reminded Seth to button his fly? Too
funny.
And last night Seth asked him to pack a bag for him. :) They're really
cute together. One macho and angry -- the other sweet and practical.
The male versions of Xena and Gabrielle! ;-D
Damn! They *are*! :-D
Post by l***@large
What about when Seth went into the slaughter house (note: the language
I've gotten past but the gutted animals hanging everywhere is more
authenticism than I need...
Latex models latex models latex models.... ;-)
Post by l***@large
I hope there aren't many scenes like last night's) anyway when Seth
grabbed Jack by the neck and Jack accused Seth and Bill of being
lovers! I look forward to Seth catching up with Jack and doing what
the jury didn't. (Wasn't that horse Jack rode out on beautiful?)
I thought so, and too good or the likes of Jack.

Did you notice her pink nose? :-)

[snip]
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Brad makes the doc creepier than he would be were he played by
someone else. He walks about with his shoulders hunched looking like a
carrion bird. Love it. :-)
Great description! To me, I see the Doc as an honest, decent man in a
hellhole of vipers, who is always "hunched" against the evil forces at
work all around him. I like that he isn't scared of anyone when it
comes to protecting the health of a patient or even the town. I liked
the way he stood up to Sigh Toliver, making him send someone for a
vaccine for smallpox.
That was a great scene. The doc does have a lot of character, and he's
smart enough to realize that Tolliver and Swearengen need his services
and aren't likely to feed him to the pigs. If he weren't the only
doctor in town, he might not feel so bold in his position. But even so,
it takes major cahones to stand up to snakes like Swearengen and
Tolliver.
Post by l***@large
I wonder why they picked so many names that begin with "S" or if they
were real and they didn't have a choice. Seth, Sol, Sigh, Swearengen.
May be just coincidence. Tolliver's given name is probably spelled Cy,
or maybe it's Si (for Silas). I think Sol Star is fictional--Al
Swearengen, too. Don't know about Cy Tolliver--there was a Bella Union
(or Bell Union) saloon in Deadwood and there may have been a real Cy
Tolliver who owned it. And Seth Bullock is supposedly a real character,
but was the real version called Seth Bullock or is the made up character
Seth Bullock based on a historical figure of another name?
l***@large
2004-04-21 18:36:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
the overused eff word and etc, and a bit of historical inaccuracy
are really the show's only flaws. :-)
You mean the cursing is historically inaccurate, or ??
I meant there are some extremely minor historical inaccuracies (such as,
Hickok was shot in the head, not in the back) that I'm more than happy
to pass off as artistic license.
And it looks like I won't have to do. In this week's ep, Bill's corpse
had a hole in its face exactly where the RL exit wound would have been,
so. (I could have sworn McCall shot him in the back last week.)
He was seated in a chair. It caught him in the head. (The exit wound
though woulda blown half his face off if these forensics shows are
accurate at all. But that's the kind of artistic license I like. Don't
mess up Bill's face more'n ya hafta.) :)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
But I have wondered if the swear words are accurate to the period.
[...]
"Updating" the dialog to some extent in order to put across
an impression is acceptable in terms of story-writing. [...]
It makes sense, but I wonder what words in the 19th century were equal
in vulgarity to fuck, cocksucker, and cunt? They'd have to be pretty
unrecognizable as swear words for 21st century English speakers not to
understand their meaning.
It's not even that we wouldn't understand them, but that they might
now have slightly different (or very different) connotations.
Post by Tulgey Wood
And even then, tone of voice goes a long way
to convey meaning, even when cultural definition is lost.
But the nuance of a word -- it's level of vulgarity -- speaks to
character.
Post by Tulgey Wood
A good
example of this is the use of smeg in place of fuck in the dialog of the
Red Dwarf comedy series.
But they aren't creating a sci-fi world on DW. They don't want to
distract the audience with having to learn/figure out the dialog to
'get' the characters' natures. (I know, we have been distracted in
another way, but that's different.)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Last night I ran some Google searches and found this show being
discussed everywhere from alt.philosophy to rec.arts. to
alt.tv.sopranos. Dozens and dozens of different groups. It's cutting
across so many lines. Many if not most of the headings were about the
language being annoying <g> and the historical record of when Hickock
got to Deadwood and when exactly he was shot. (One day after Seth
arrived according to history I guess.) I am SO glad I didn't read
those spoilers in school. <g!> Don't tell me what happens to anyone!
Or even what *doesn't* happen? IOW, is it bad spoilers you don't want
to know, or all spoilers?
All spoilers. e.g. I don't want to know if Jane grows old and dies
there or whatever.
Post by Tulgey Wood
IAC, what's happening to Jack McCall *so far*
isn't what happened to him in RL, so I can't say how the show will deal
with him (apparently they've made Seth the lone avenger, and that's a
fiction).
I'm sure they're taking artistic license but the show is authentic in
all the ways that count in terms of making this town come alive to us.
If they followed history exactly, everyone who knows history would be
spoiled, which is likely one reason they aren't following it.

[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
I wonder if Charlie gets back tonight.
Supposedly, he put the funeral together, so if they're sticking to the
books...he wouldn't have left Deadwood in the first place, but what the
hey? :-P
He gets back next week. Pooey. I wanted to see him last night. I
wanted everyone to get together and emote for Bill. Blubber awhile.
Damn macho westerns. <g>
Seth was sort of teary. McCall asked him why he was crying, and I
thought his eyes looked a little moist. (Mostly though, Seth did little
more than seethe and act sort of hormonal.)
When I watched it I thought I saw a tear come down Seth's right cheek,
right along the bridge of his nose, but it wasn't easy to see.
Post by Tulgey Wood
IAC, maybe they'll have a
proper wake for Bill once McCall is dealt with.
I just want to see Charlie get the news. But I wonder if we'll tune
into him after he's already found out. Word spreads fast and Bill was
famous. Could be Charlie hears long before he makes it back to
Deadwood. If they show Charlie getting the news that's very bold. I
hope they do.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
At least Jane shed some tears. (I laughed so hard when she was walking
to the river to get water for the delerious dying guy and told him to
shut the fuck up with the apologies or he wouldn't get a drop!)
That scene was really hilarious, I thought (but poor Andy was in such a
bad way that I felt sort of guilty for laughing).
He survives though, I bet. Cause Cy's "Madam" makes a point that some
do.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
--But will she get ill next??
Qba'g xabj vs fur'yy trg fvpx va gur fubj, ohg va EY fur yvirq vagb ure
svsgvrf. Bar bs gur guvatf fur'f jryy xabja sbe vf ahefvat ivpgvzf bs
Qrnqjbbq'f fznyycbk cynthr. Fur znl unir unq na vzzhavgl, be vs fur qvq
trg vyy, fur qvqa'g qvr bs fznyycbk va ure gjragvrf.
(Smart!) But I don't!

I know the town gets hit with the smallpox epidemic because I can tell
from what's happened so far.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
But I told Wolf a couple weeks ago that I bet Alma would kick her
laudenum habit and become a force in the town. Now that Eli's dead
(recognize Eli from XWP as Alma's now-dead Brahm Garrett?)
Yeah. Took me a few minutes to place him onaccounta the no beard, and
he looked a right pouf. :-D
What a twinkle boy he was. I bet Dan wanted to nail his ass. ;-D
Maybe he did. They seem to have been on the mountain for quite a few
hours before he tossed him off. :-D
LOL. Speaking of Dan, I saw subtext between Dan and Al in this last
ep. Dan is rearranging the tables for the jury and Al's up on the
landing and says "Why can't they sit at separate tables?" and Dan's
all, "Do you want the tables together or not?" Then a few minutes
later Al's leaving the bar area from talking to E.B. and turns and
almost runs into Dan who's carrying a chair, and Al spreads out his
arms and moves aside feigning giving Dan wide berth. They were acting
just like an old married couple. <lol> Then later they were perched
togetehr on the landing watching the trial. [I realize it's not *real*
subtext we see on this show, but it's enjoyable nevertheless. (Well,
maybe the subtext between Seth and Sol is real.)] ;-D
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
it looks like that's happening.
Thankfully. Now her twit of a husband is out of the picture, she can
stop doping and start living. Maybe she'll take up with Jane.
My my! They are an awesome sight together in the same room. Talk about
polar opposites. They look like they're from two different species.
LOL!! You mean, like women and men?. :-P
[cue Jane] "Very fucking funny!" :-D

E.B. refers to Jane as Hickock's "half-woman friend."
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
I like how Alma gets along with anyone. Not that she approves of
everyone, or buddies up to them like a gf, but she goes along to get
along, and doesn't seem to judge.
I think she realizes she won't survive unless she goes with the flow.
She can't afford to be judgmental. She's far from her civilized home,
without family or friend, and on top of that, she's going through
addiction withdrawal. She seems to be a very strong person--taking
herself off the dope, launching an adversarial relationship with
Swearengen.
All true!
Post by Tulgey Wood
I'm really beginning to like Alma a lot, and I hope she
stays in Deadwood. She can make a better life for herself there. Back
in "civilized" NY, she was nothing but property that exchanged hands
from father to husband. In Deadwood, I think she can be her own woman.
Really good point.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
That's right! Howsabout when Sol reminded Seth to button his fly? Too
funny.
And last night Seth asked him to pack a bag for him. :) They're really
cute together. One macho and angry -- the other sweet and practical.
The male versions of Xena and Gabrielle! ;-D
Damn! They *are*! :-D
Post by l***@large
What about when Seth went into the slaughter house (note: the language
I've gotten past but the gutted animals hanging everywhere is more
authenticism than I need...
Latex models latex models latex models.... ;-)
Thanks. I was wondering if they got real [already-dead] pigs from a
slaughterhouse. I didn't think as far as latex. I was too verklempt,
trying to block them out.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
I hope there aren't many scenes like last night's) anyway when Seth
grabbed Jack by the neck and Jack accused Seth and Bill of being
lovers! I look forward to Seth catching up with Jack and doing what
the jury didn't. (Wasn't that horse Jack rode out on beautiful?)
I thought so, and too good or the likes of Jack.
Did you notice her pink nose? :-)
I sure did! I thought it was odd Al/the show gave Jack such an
distinctive looking horse, and not a "run of the mill" brown one.
Maybe it makes it easier for Seth to find him? I guess we'll see if
the distinctive coloring comes into play. But Al would just as soon
have Jack dead. Remember what he said about men like Jack being bad
for business? And he's afraid the govmnt will hear of the trial and
come down on DW. Mehtinks he gave Jack that horse and not another for
a reason. (Didn't he even say something like, "the pink one out front
is yours" or something about a "pink horse"?)
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Brad makes the doc creepier than he would be were he played by
someone else. He walks about with his shoulders hunched looking like a
carrion bird. Love it. :-)
Great description! To me, I see the Doc as an honest, decent man in a
hellhole of vipers, who is always "hunched" against the evil forces at
work all around him. I like that he isn't scared of anyone when it
comes to protecting the health of a patient or even the town. I liked
the way he stood up to Sigh Toliver, making him send someone for a
vaccine for smallpox.
That was a great scene. The doc does have a lot of character, and he's
smart enough to realize that Tolliver and Swearengen need his services
and aren't likely to feed him to the pigs. If he weren't the only
doctor in town, he might not feel so bold in his position. But even so,
it takes major cahones to stand up to snakes like Swearengen and
Tolliver.
I could be wrong but I wondered from early on if the Doc has been kept
in Deadwood against his will. Like he showed up unawares, Al engaged
his services, then made it clear if he left he'd come to a bad end.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
I wonder why they picked so many names that begin with "S" or if they
were real and they didn't have a choice. Seth, Sol, Sigh, Swearengen.
May be just coincidence. Tolliver's given name is probably spelled Cy,
Of course. When I wrote "Sigh" I knew it was wrong. I haven't been to
the Deadwood homepage (or the imdb Deadwood page) but meant to go to
see how everyone spells their names.
Post by Tulgey Wood
or maybe it's Si (for Silas). I think Sol Star is fictional--Al
Swearengen, too. Don't know about Cy Tolliver--there was a Bella Union
(or Bell Union) saloon in Deadwood and there may have been a real Cy
Tolliver who owned it. And Seth Bullock is supposedly a real character,
but was the real version called Seth Bullock or is the made up character
Seth Bullock based on a historical figure of another name?
You got me. And I ain't sniffin' around any history books at this
point! I didn't mind being spoiled on L-Word or XWP, but I won't be
reading spoilers on Deadwood.

Btw, when E.B. was scrubbing his hotel floor Wolf and I both thought
of Smeagal (Gollum). Did you? We think they must have directed him to
act that way (or he thought of it himself). Even the way he was
talking to himself and saying his own name, "Eustice Baily Farnum..."
almost talking in 3rd person (or maybe he was... he's so slimey I was
busy thinking about gollum and LOTR and wondering who directed him to
do that, and the weird link between a great CGI character in a fantasy
and a western... and...and...and...) This is why I watch shows
multiple times. <g>

***@large
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-26 04:40:30 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by l***@large
I wonder what words in the 19th century were equal in vulgarity to
fuck, cocksucker, and cunt? They'd have to be pretty unrecognizable
as swear words for 21st century English speakers not to understand
their meaning.
It's not even that we wouldn't understand them, but that they might
now have slightly different (or very different) connotations.
And even then, tone of voice goes a long way to convey meaning, even
when cultural definition is lost.
But the nuance of a word -- it's level of vulgarity -- speaks to
character.
Right. Your point (as I have it) is that 19th century swearing doesn't
come across with the same impact--isn't as harsh and jarring to 21st
century sensibilities. I agree. But.... If the writers choose to
update or modernize the characters in order to have them fully
understood by viewers, they should do it as subtly as possible to avoid
pulling viewers out of the period.

I haven't seen the film version of Cold Mountain, but I've read the
novel. There are characters in that story who make Swearengen, and
Farnum, and Dority, and etc come off as a bunch of (foulmouthed) choir
boys, yet its language--swearing and all--is true to the period. I have
heard zero complaints about excessive use of vulgar language in the film
version of Cold Mountain, but there seems to be quite a bit of carping
about it--from fans and in the media--regarding Deadwood.
Post by l***@large
A good example of this is the use of smeg in place of fuck in the
dialog of the Red Dwarf comedy series.
But they aren't creating a sci-fi world on DW. They don't want to
distract the audience with having to learn/figure out the dialog to
'get' the characters' natures.
It was more to do with compromise. The writers intended the characters
to speak a certain earthy language the Beeb doesn't allow.
Post by l***@large
(I know, we have been distracted in another way, but that's
different.)
We've...¿que? :-D
Post by l***@large
Post by l***@large
Don't tell me what happens to anyone!
Or even what *doesn't* happen? IOW, is it bad spoilers you don't want
to know, or all spoilers?
All spoilers. e.g. I don't want to know if Jane grows old and dies
there or whatever.
And here I was thinking *I* was the spoiler nancy and that you read
them, every last one. :-D If Deadwood isn't true to RL, maybe you'll
want to know what really happened after Jane's story line runs out...er,
or doesn't. (That's not a spoiler, 'cause I don't know!)
Post by l***@large
IAC, what's happening to Jack McCall *so far*
isn't what happened to him in RL, so I can't say how the show will deal
with him (apparently they've made Seth the lone avenger, and that's a
fiction).
I'm sure they're taking artistic license but the show is authentic in
all the ways that count in terms of making this town come alive to us.
Well, except for the cussin'. ;-P
Post by l***@large
If they followed history exactly, everyone who knows history would be
spoiled, which is likely one reason they aren't following it.
Could be. Also could be that their "embellishments" make for better
drama.

[snip]

[re WBH's death:]
Post by l***@large
I just want to see Charlie get the news. But I wonder if we'll tune
into him after he's already found out. Word spreads fast and Bill was
famous. Could be Charlie hears long before he makes it back to
Deadwood. If they show Charlie getting the news that's very bold. I
hope they do.
Maybe they will. I still wonder what was the purpose of having him
absent from Deadwood when WBH was killed. Maybe we'll find that out
tonight (or in my case, tomorrow), too.
Post by l***@large
Post by l***@large
At least Jane shed some tears. (I laughed so hard when she was walking
to the river to get water for the delerious dying guy and told him to
shut the fuck up with the apologies or he wouldn't get a drop!)
That scene was really hilarious, I thought (but poor Andy was in such a
bad way that I felt sort of guilty for laughing).
He survives though, I bet. Cause Cy's "Madam" makes a point that some
do.
Maybe the some who do will be principal characters. I've seen the actor
who plays Andy before, but I can't place him and he isn't listed on
HBO's cast roster, so it may be curtains for him.

[snip]
Post by l***@large
I saw subtext between Dan and Al in this last ep. Dan is rearranging
the tables for the jury and Al's up on the landing and says "Why
can't they sit at separate tables?" and Dan's all, "Do you want the
tables together or not?" Then a few minutes later Al's leaving the
bar area from talking to E.B. and turns and almost runs into Dan
who's carrying a chair, and Al spreads out his arms and moves aside
feigning giving Dan wide berth. They were acting just like an old
married couple. <lol>
LOL!!
Post by l***@large
Then later they were perched togetehr on the landing watching the
trial. [I realize it's not *real* subtext we see on this show, but
it's enjoyable nevertheless.
*And* funny. :-D
Post by l***@large
(Well, maybe the subtext between Seth and Sol is real.)] ;-D
I believe it is.

[snip]

[re Alma:]
Post by l***@large
Post by l***@large
Post by Tulgey Wood
Now her twit of a husband is out of the picture, she can
stop doping and start living. Maybe she'll take up with Jane.
My my! They are an awesome sight together in the same room. Talk about
polar opposites. They look like they're from two different species.
LOL!! You mean, like women and men?. :-P
[cue Jane] "Very fucking funny!" :-D
E.B. refers to Jane as Hickock's "half-woman friend."
And she says she's the only one in the Gem with balls. Can they *both*
be right? :-D

[snip]
Post by l***@large
Post by l***@large
What about when Seth went into the slaughter house (note: the language
I've gotten past but the gutted animals hanging everywhere is more
authenticism than I need...
Latex models latex models latex models.... ;-)
Thanks. I was wondering if they got real [already-dead] pigs from a
slaughterhouse. I didn't think as far as latex. I was too verklempt,
trying to block them out.
It's only a movie it's only a movie it's only a movie.... :-D I jumped
up and ran out of the theater during White Squall because I thought
they'd shot a dolphin with a crossbow. Animatronics made a fool of me.
Post by l***@large
Post by l***@large
I hope there aren't many scenes like last night's) anyway when Seth
grabbed Jack by the neck and Jack accused Seth and Bill of being
lovers! I look forward to Seth catching up with Jack and doing what
the jury didn't. (Wasn't that horse Jack rode out on beautiful?)
I thought so, and too good or the likes of Jack.
Did you notice her pink nose? :-)
I sure did! I thought it was odd Al/the show gave Jack such an
distinctive looking horse, and not a "run of the mill" brown one.
Maybe it makes it easier for Seth to find him? I guess we'll see if
the distinctive coloring comes into play. But Al would just as soon
have Jack dead. Remember what he said about men like Jack being bad
for business? And he's afraid the govmnt will hear of the trial and
come down on DW. Mehtinks he gave Jack that horse and not another for
a reason.
Maybe she's a belly blower--she blows out her belly when the saddle
cinch is tightened, then sucks it in at a gallop. Disastrous results
for the rider. <snort>
Post by l***@large
(Didn't he even say something like, "the pink one out front is yours"
or something about a "pink horse"?)
The /paint/. A paint is a pinto. Spotted horsie. :-)

[snip]
Post by l***@large
The doc does have a lot of character, and he's smart enough to
realize that Tolliver and Swearengen need his services and aren't
likely to feed him to the pigs. If he weren't the only doctor in
town, he might not feel so bold in his position. But even so, it
takes major cahones to stand up to snakes like Swearengen and
Tolliver.
I could be wrong but I wondered from early on if the Doc has been kept
in Deadwood against his will. Like he showed up unawares, Al engaged
his services, then made it clear if he left he'd come to a bad end.
You mean, just passing through and got Shanghaied? Could be. I hope we
get his back story, though. I'll bet he has all sorts of interesting
demons.
Post by l***@large
Btw, when E.B. was scrubbing his hotel floor Wolf and I both thought
of Smeagal (Gollum). Did you?
I thought of Lady Macbeth, actually. =O
Post by l***@large
We think they must have directed him to act that way (or he thought of
it himself). Even the way he was talking to himself and saying his
own name, "Eustice Baily Farnum..." almost talking in 3rd person (or
maybe he was... he's so slimey I was busy thinking about gollum and
LOTR and wondering who directed him to do that, and the weird link
between a great CGI character in a fantasy and a western...
and...and...and...)
You're asking the wrong party. I'm one of those nutters who as a rule
won't watch film versions of books they love because they don't want
third party visuals tainting their experience of them. I haven't seen
the Lord of the Ring films, and probably won't...voluntarily. :-D

That said, my mental version of Tolkien's Gollum does not in any way
bring E B Farnum to mind. ;-D
Post by l***@large
This is why I watch shows multiple times. <g>
Yep, the best shows give you something new every time you watch. Next
time you watch that scene, look for a variation on Mrs Macbeth.
Deadwood is hugely Shakespearean.
l***@large.com
2004-04-28 03:11:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by l***@large
I wonder what words in the 19th century were equal in vulgarity to
fuck, cocksucker, and cunt? They'd have to be pretty unrecognizable
as swear words for 21st century English speakers not to understand
their meaning.
It's not even that we wouldn't understand them, but that they might
now have slightly different (or very different) connotations.
And even then, tone of voice goes a long way to convey meaning, even
when cultural definition is lost.
But the nuance of a word -- it's level of vulgarity -- speaks to
character.
Right. Your point (as I have it) is that 19th century swearing doesn't
come across with the same impact--isn't as harsh and jarring to 21st
century sensibilities. I agree. But.... If the writers choose to
update or modernize the characters in order to have them fully
understood by viewers, they should do it as subtly as possible to avoid
pulling viewers out of the period.
Agreed. But that gets back to the Hollywood rules of allowing swear
words that are out of period.

Bottom line: it was David Milch's decision. Maybe it was a good
decision, maybe a bad one, but it wasn't a "flaw" -- i.e. they didn't
"screw up" and "not realize" they were using words that were out of
time. Nor did they break any Hollywood rules. So it's just a matter of
"was it a POPULAR decision." And the answer seems to be "no". I really
don't mind it. In fact.... I'd miss it now that it's become part of who
they are.
Post by Tulgey Wood
I haven't seen the film version of Cold Mountain, but I've read the
novel. There are characters in that story who make Swearengen, and
Farnum, and Dority, and etc come off as a bunch of (foulmouthed) choir
boys, yet its language--swearing and all--is true to the period. I have
heard zero complaints about excessive use of vulgar language in the film
version of Cold Mountain,
...because Cold Mt. wasn't about villains who were fouth-mouthed, but
foul-hearted. It was about people whose deeds did the cursing for them.
Post by Tulgey Wood
but there seems to be quite a bit of carping
about it--from fans and in the media--regarding Deadwood.
I get your point. But again, these were the characters they envisioned.
Foul-mouthed, crude men. Not the same men who were the villains in Cold
Mt. Their own characters with their own ways of speaking. And not
everyone curses. The ones that do, do so for a reason. Al b/c he's a man
who feels smarter than everyone around him and put upon by the dredge he
has to put up with to make money, so he's contemptuous; Jane b/c she's
scared and feels like she has to act tough to get by; Ellsworth b/c he
knows he isn't a "fancy man" and doesn't pretend to be what he's not.
And that's it really. Everyone else uses swearing a lot less... what
most would consider 'acceptable.' Sol and the Rev don't curse at all. I
don't think Merrick does either. The Doc, rarely. Alma, not. Trixie,
rarely. Etc. ... it ain't that bad. :)

(Btw as to Cold Mt., I didn't see the film *or* read the book, but I
read the screenplay [what a drudge!] and hated it. Was so frickin' slow
and an animal got killed like every five pages. That's one movie I ain't
gonna see!)

[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
All spoilers. e.g. I don't want to know if Jane grows old and dies
there or whatever.
And here I was thinking *I* was the spoiler nancy and that you read
them, every last one. :-D
I always have for every show I've ever watched -- until now. :)
Post by Tulgey Wood
If Deadwood isn't true to RL, maybe you'll
want to know what really happened after Jane's story line runs out...er,
or doesn't. (That's not a spoiler, 'cause I don't know!)
Eh. Who cares about the real Jane. <j/k> ;-D

[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
If they followed history exactly, everyone who knows history would be
spoiled, which is likely one reason they aren't following it.
Could be. Also could be that their "embellishments" make for better
drama.
Oh yeah. That too! :)
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
[re WBH's death:]
Post by l***@large
I just want to see Charlie get the news. But I wonder if we'll tune
into him after he's already found out. Word spreads fast and Bill was
famous. Could be Charlie hears long before he makes it back to
Deadwood. If they show Charlie getting the news that's very bold. I
hope they do.
Maybe they will. I still wonder what was the purpose of having him
absent from Deadwood when WBH was killed. Maybe we'll find that out
tonight (or in my case, tomorrow), too.
Having Charlie out of town made things better from a writer's/story
standpoint for a few reasons, imo. For one, he was always watching over
Bill, closeby if not at his side. If he was "across town" when it
happened it mighta felt awfully "convenient" (even though we know this
is history, we are watching drama, not a documentary). Moreover an ep
has to end as soon as possible after the climax so that it isn't
diluted. Bill getting shot was the climax. They had to show Jane and
Seth arrive and react... but they used a "less is more scene." If they
had Charlie there too, they would have had to show more of him. It was
better, strategically, to have him be away so that the viewers (like me)
would fret over getting him back to tell him, then watching his
reaction, This means their climax of two weeks ago is "still paying off"
two weeks later. And it's still paying off in one other way too -- Seth
and Charlie have yet to get Jack. And now we're looking even *more*
forward to that since Charlie's is going to be there too.
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by l***@large
Post by l***@large
What about when Seth went into the slaughter house (note: the language
I've gotten past but the gutted animals hanging everywhere is more
authenticism than I need...
Latex models latex models latex models.... ;-)
Thanks. I was wondering if they got real [already-dead] pigs from a
slaughterhouse. I didn't think as far as latex. I was too verklempt,
trying to block them out.
It's only a movie it's only a movie it's only a movie.... :-D
Right. But see that doesn't help me b/c it isn't the movie that upsets
me... it's RL the sight triggers. The real pigs hanging dead in real
slaughterhouses... the ones in trucks on their way to be killed who
absolutely know where they are headed and why (if people knew this
simple fact alone -- how intelligent animals are -- they would be unable
to eat them)... in the process of being butchered... etc etc etc.

I don't want to be reminded.
Post by Tulgey Wood
I jumped
up and ran out of the theater during White Squall because I thought
they'd shot a dolphin with a crossbow. Animatronics made a fool of me.
Not one bit. I woulda walked out too. I don't care of it *is* fake, I
don't wanna see it. Just like if they made an animatronics baby or child
then showed someone fucking it and torturing it... knowing it was fake
doesn't change the fact that it is offensive and I don't want to see it,
faked or not. Shooting a dolphin, butchering pigs or other animals. Who
needs it! That's not my idea of entertainment. We go in there to suspend
disbelief. What good is it if we have to keep reminding ourselves it's
fake! Either you believe or you don't. I believe. And I don't like being
pulled out to remind myself not to believe!

KWIM jellybean? :-D

[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
(Didn't he even say something like, "the pink one out front is yours"
or something about a "pink horse"?)
The /paint/. A paint is a pinto. Spotted horsie. :-)
Yeah I caught that the second time I watched.
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by l***@large
The doc does have a lot of character, and he's smart enough to
realize that Tolliver and Swearengen need his services and aren't
likely to feed him to the pigs. If he weren't the only doctor in
town, he might not feel so bold in his position. But even so, it
takes major cahones to stand up to snakes like Swearengen and
Tolliver.
I could be wrong but I wondered from early on if the Doc has been kept
in Deadwood against his will. Like he showed up unawares, Al engaged
his services, then made it clear if he left he'd come to a bad end.
You mean, just passing through and got Shanghaied?
Not necessarily. Coulda gone there thinking he might settle for awhile,
but then soon suspected he didn't have a choice anymore. And now knows
so.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Could be. I hope we
get his back story, though. I'll bet he has all sorts of interesting
demons.
Post by l***@large
Btw, when E.B. was scrubbing his hotel floor Wolf and I both thought
of Smeagal (Gollum). Did you?
I thought of Lady Macbeth, actually. =O
"EB Macbeth?" That's too weird!
Post by Tulgey Wood
Yep, the best shows give you something new every time you watch. Next
time you watch that scene, look for a variation on Mrs Macbeth.
Deadwood is hugely Shakespearean.
My closest tie to Macbeth was when ROC toured here in the beach cities
doing the play with her little traveling show. As Andy would say. "Ah
a-pala-gyze" but I cannot even begin to mix ROC and EB in my head. I'd
need a bad acid trip for that.

Calamity Coyote
Tulgey Wood
2004-05-02 21:52:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
I wonder what words in the 19th century were equal in vulgarity to
fuck, cocksucker, and cunt? They'd have to be pretty
unrecognizable as swear words for 21st century English speakers
not to understand their meaning.
It's not even that we wouldn't understand them, but that they might
now have slightly different (or very different) connotations.
And even then, tone of voice goes a long way to convey meaning,
even when cultural definition is lost.
But the nuance of a word -- it's level of vulgarity -- speaks to
character.
Right. Your point (as I have it) is that 19th century swearing
doesn't come across with the same impact--isn't as harsh and jarring
to 21st century sensibilities. I agree. But.... If the writers
choose to update or modernize the characters in order to have them
fully understood by viewers, they should do it as subtly as possible
to avoid pulling viewers out of the period.
Agreed. But that gets back to the Hollywood rules of allowing swear
words that are out of period.
IOW, not following established practice, but taking license. Their
right, entirely. IMO, they shouldn't have done, but Deadwood isn't my
show.
Post by l***@large.com
Bottom line: it was David Milch's decision. Maybe it was a good
decision, maybe a bad one,
but it wasn't a "flaw" -- i.e. they didn't "screw up" and "not
realize" they were using words that were out of time.
They didn't screw up in the sense that they were unaware that the dialog
in question is anachronistic. The screw up--in my completely subjective
opinion--was in disregarding the anachronism (for whatever reason).

[snip]

[re Charles Utter]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
I still wonder what was the purpose of having him absent from
Deadwood when WBH was killed. Maybe we'll find that out tonight (or
in my case, tomorrow), too.
Having Charlie out of town made things better from a writer's/story
standpoint for a few reasons, imo. For one, he was always watching over
Bill, closeby if not at his side. If he was "across town" when it
happened it mighta felt awfully "convenient" (even though we know this
is history, we are watching drama, not a documentary). Moreover an ep
has to end as soon as possible after the climax so that it isn't
diluted. Bill getting shot was the climax. They had to show Jane and
Seth arrive and react... but they used a "less is more scene." If they
had Charlie there too, they would have had to show more of him. It was
better, strategically, to have him be away so that the viewers (like me)
would fret over getting him back to tell him, then watching his
reaction, This means their climax of two weeks ago is "still paying off"
two weeks later. And it's still paying off in one other way too -- Seth
and Charlie have yet to get Jack. And now we're looking even *more*
forward to that since Charlie's is going to be there too.
Excellent points. Thanks for the explanation. :-)

[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
The doc does have a lot of character, and he's smart enough to
realize that Tolliver and Swearengen need his services and aren't
likely to feed him to the pigs. If he weren't the only doctor in
town, he might not feel so bold in his position. But even so, it
takes major cahones to stand up to snakes like Swearengen and
Tolliver.
I could be wrong but I wondered from early on if the Doc has been kept
in Deadwood against his will. Like he showed up unawares, Al engaged
his services, then made it clear if he left he'd come to a bad end.
You mean, just passing through and got Shanghaied?
Not necessarily. Coulda gone there thinking he might settle for awhile,
but then soon suspected he didn't have a choice anymore. And now knows
so.
Could be. Could be he wants to leave, but I suspect he's an altruistic
sort and stays on because he realizes he's less help to the people who
pay him than he is to those he doctors. Plus, he probably thinks if he
doesn't stay, the people he helps would suffer because doctors are rare
west of the Mississippi.

[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Btw, when E.B. was scrubbing his hotel floor Wolf and I both thought
of Smeagal (Gollum). Did you?
I thought of Lady Macbeth, actually. =O
"EB Macbeth?" That's too weird!
No, *Lady* Macbeth, the clearer-up of bloodstains. It's a perversion of
the Shakespeare.
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Yep, the best shows give you something new every time you watch. Next
time you watch that scene, look for a variation on Mrs Macbeth.
Deadwood is hugely Shakespearean.
My closest tie to Macbeth was when ROC toured here in the beach cities
doing the play with her little traveling show.
As fond as I am of ROC, I would expect her Shakespeare to be competent,
but not brilliant. If you're interested, check out Judi Dench's (TV)
version, or Jeanette Nolan's (in the Welles film). Both should be on
video.
Post by l***@large.com
As Andy would say. "Ah a-pala-gyze" but I cannot even begin to mix ROC
and EB in my head. I'd need a bad acid trip for that.
LOL! Fuggedabout ROC. EB Farnum does a perfectly petulant Lady M. :-D
Calamity Coyote ()
2004-05-03 23:49:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Agreed. But that gets back to the Hollywood rules of allowing swear
words that are out of period.
IOW, not following established practice, but taking license. Their
right, entirely. IMO, they shouldn't have done, but Deadwood isn't my
show.
We disagree but we're also miscuing methinks. (Not that it matters.)
But DW *is* following established practice in Hollywood by using
modern swear words. Which is what I was saying above. What I get from
you is that you think it was a mistake in any case, established
practice or not.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Bottom line: it was David Milch's decision. Maybe it was a good
decision, maybe a bad one,
but it wasn't a "flaw" -- i.e. they didn't "screw up" and "not
realize" they were using words that were out of time.
They didn't screw up in the sense that they were unaware that the dialog
in question is anachronistic. The screw up--in my completely subjective
opinion--was in disregarding the anachronism (for whatever reason).
IAC the show remains in the Top 10 cable shows. YAY. :) I guess we'll
see next season how the cursing goes. If the hardcore fans get used to
it or if the show tones it down. I would guess the former.
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
The doc does have a lot of character, and he's smart enough to
realize that Tolliver and Swearengen need his services and aren't
likely to feed him to the pigs. If he weren't the only doctor in
town, he might not feel so bold in his position. But even so, it
takes major cahones to stand up to snakes like Swearengen and
Tolliver.
I could be wrong but I wondered from early on if the Doc has been kept
in Deadwood against his will. Like he showed up unawares, Al engaged
his services, then made it clear if he left he'd come to a bad end.
You mean, just passing through and got Shanghaied?
Not necessarily. Coulda gone there thinking he might settle for awhile,
but then soon suspected he didn't have a choice anymore. And now knows
so.
Could be. Could be he wants to leave, but I suspect he's an altruistic
sort and stays on because he realizes he's less help to the people who
pay him than he is to those he doctors. Plus, he probably thinks if he
doesn't stay, the people he helps would suffer because doctors are rare
west of the Mississippi.
I suspect you're right. He is altruistic. And he takes a lot of shit
from people and just lets it roll off his back, unless it threatens a
patient or poses a health hazard. (He actually has a real nice bedside
manner, notwithstanding poking that guy's head with a probe after
being shot through the brain. He *did* wait until the guy was good and
dead though and comforted him on the way out.) :-D
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Btw, when E.B. was scrubbing his hotel floor Wolf and I both thought
of Smeagal (Gollum). Did you?
I thought of Lady Macbeth, actually. =O
"EB Macbeth?" That's too weird!
No, *Lady* Macbeth, the clearer-up of bloodstains. It's a perversion of
the Shakespeare.
Ah-ha. Explain enough and I'll almost always understand. Eventually.
:)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Yep, the best shows give you something new every time you watch. Next
time you watch that scene, look for a variation on Mrs Macbeth.
Deadwood is hugely Shakespearean.
You're too right.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
My closest tie to Macbeth was when ROC toured here in the beach cities
doing the play with her little traveling show.
As fond as I am of ROC, I would expect her Shakespeare to be competent,
but not brilliant.
Correct, (imo). Then again, that's not why we went. :)
Post by Tulgey Wood
If you're interested, check out Judi Dench's (TV)
version, or Jeanette Nolan's (in the Welles film). Both should be on
video.
I'm afraid I'm a little too Hollywoodized in my taste. Shakespeare is
too friggin depressing to enjoy more than once every ten years or so.
Which reminds me... I brought the Mel Gibson/Glen Close version of
Hamlet to my Mom's once to have her watch it. I love that version
[though now my feelings for Mel are different and I likely won't ever
watch it again]. IAC as soon as it started Mom asked, "Does this have
a happy ending?" LOL.

Uh.... it's SHAKESPEARE! HeLLO. We laughed really hard then she
complained all the way through. Especially at the end. (No good deed
goes unpunished, dontcha know.)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
As Andy would say. "Ah a-pala-gyze" but I cannot even begin to mix ROC
and EB in my head. I'd need a bad acid trip for that.
LOL! Fuggedabout ROC. EB Farnum does a perfectly petulant Lady M. :-D
You are so right. That he does. All kidding aside. He really does.

But he does a mean Gollum too. ;)

Calamity Coyote
Tulgey Wood
2004-05-09 18:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Agreed. But that gets back to the Hollywood rules of allowing swear
words that are out of period.
IOW, not following established practice, but taking license. Their
right, entirely. IMO, they shouldn't have done, but Deadwood isn't
my show.
We disagree but we're also miscuing methinks. (Not that it matters.)
But DW *is* following established practice in Hollywood by using
modern swear words.
Right, then. They're following established practice and not taking
license to not follow established practice. :-D
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Which is what I was saying above.
I thought you meant that Hollywood makes its own rules regarding dialog.
I consider that taking license.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
What I get from you is that you think it was a mistake in any case,
established practice or not.
Yes. But at this point I'm completely inured to it. And as you said
you would do, I think I'd miss it, too, if suddenly they stopped writing
Jane saying things like, "It's Jane Canary calling for Doc fuckin'
Cochran!" Or Cy commenting to ladies on his "feelin's of fuckin'
affection." And if they toned it down, then E B wouldn't deliver lines
about Jane like, "Her gutter mouth and the widow in an opium stupor--a
conversation for the ages."

[snip]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
I wondered from early on if the Doc has been kept in Deadwood
against his will. Like he showed up unawares, Al engaged his
services, then made it clear if he left he'd come to a bad end.
You mean, just passing through and got Shanghaied?
Not necessarily. Coulda gone there thinking he might settle for awhile,
but then soon suspected he didn't have a choice anymore. And now knows
so.
Could be. Could be he wants to leave, but I suspect he's an altruistic
sort and stays on because he realizes he's less help to the people who
pay him than he is to those he doctors. Plus, he probably thinks if he
doesn't stay, the people he helps would suffer because doctors are rare
west of the Mississippi.
I suspect you're right. He is altruistic. And he takes a lot of shit
from people and just lets it roll off his back, unless it threatens a
patient or poses a health hazard. (He actually has a real nice bedside
manner, notwithstanding poking that guy's head with a probe after
being shot through the brain. He *did* wait until the guy was good and
dead though and comforted him on the way out.) :-D
LOL! Yeah, that was an autopsy, not a vigil. Weren't nuthin' at home
at that point but blood and guts.

[snip]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
I brought the Mel Gibson/Glen Close version of Hamlet to my Mom's once
to have her watch it. I love that version [though now my feelings for
Mel are different and I likely won't ever watch it again]. IAC as
soon as it started Mom asked, "Does this have a happy ending?" LOL.
LOL!! I've always thought WS should have subtitled Hamlet, Prince of
Denmark "Or, Everyone Dies." :-D
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Uh.... it's SHAKESPEARE! HeLLO. We laughed really hard then she
complained all the way through. Especially at the end. (No good deed
goes unpunished, dontcha know.)
Mom must be WWII vintage--that generation are totally anal about
endings. ;-D
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
As Andy would say. "Ah a-pala-gyze" but I cannot even begin to mix ROC
and EB in my head. I'd need a bad acid trip for that.
LOL! Fuggedabout ROC. EB Farnum does a perfectly petulant Lady M. :-D
You are so right. That he does. All kidding aside. He really does.
But he does a mean Gollum too. ;)
A mean *Hollywood* Gollum...I'll take your word for it. ;-)
Tulgey Wood
2004-05-09 18:28:28 UTC
Permalink
In message <news:***@40tude.net>, Tulgey Wood
wrote:

[re Doc Cochran]
Post by Tulgey Wood
(He actually has a real nice bedside manner, notwithstanding poking
that guy's head with a probe after being shot through the brain. He
*did* wait until the guy was good and dead though and comforted him
on the way out.) :-D
LOL! Yeah, that was an autopsy, not a vigil. Weren't nuthin' at home
at that point but blood and guts.
Oop, speaking of bedside manners, I forgot to mention Jane's bedside
manner (that had me absolutely howling, though I'm sure it wasn't
intended to be funny): The doc told her one of the smallpox patients
got relief from having a wet cloth pressed to his mouth, and Jane says
to the guy, "I'm just gonna put this on your fuckin' lips." ROTFL!!
Calamity Coyote ()
2004-05-11 21:13:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
[re Doc Cochran]
Post by Tulgey Wood
(He actually has a real nice bedside manner, notwithstanding poking
that guy's head with a probe after being shot through the brain. He
*did* wait until the guy was good and dead though and comforted him
on the way out.) :-D
LOL! Yeah, that was an autopsy, not a vigil. Weren't nuthin' at home
at that point but blood and guts.
Oop, speaking of bedside manners, I forgot to mention Jane's bedside
manner (that had me absolutely howling, though I'm sure it wasn't
intended to be funny): The doc told her one of the smallpox patients
got relief from having a wet cloth pressed to his mouth, and Jane says
to the guy, "I'm just gonna put this on your fuckin' lips." ROTFL!!
What's funnier is when the Doc gets short with someone and Jane
apologizes for his language and rudeness! Ha! Like when he told the
Rev he needed to get some rest and Jane says, "Doc here's tired
himself or he wouldn't be so fuckin' harsh with his language..." And
she did that another time too... can't remember who the Doc was
talking to at the time.

I missed her being largely absent in last night's ep -- Charlie too --
but it was another great one! I like how they wind things up quickly
[with Flora and Miles for example]. They don't drag anything out.

So... Flora called Joanie a dyke. Is Joanie a dyke, or does she
perhaps use that as an excuse to keep Cy at bay? To "account" for why
she wouldn't be interested in him? (It would be easier to say she
isn't interested in men all together than to 'offend' Cy's ego by
saying it's him she can't stand -- even though he knows it.) Or did
Flora just use that term loosely to be mean?

Calamity Coyote
Tulgey Wood
2004-05-15 03:55:30 UTC
Permalink
[Re Jane's bedside manner:]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
The doc told her one of the smallpox patients got relief from having
a wet cloth pressed to his mouth, and Jane says to the guy, "I'm
just gonna put this on your fuckin' lips." ROTFL!!
What's funnier is when the Doc gets short with someone and Jane
apologizes for his language and rudeness! Ha! Like when he told the
Rev he needed to get some rest and Jane says, "Doc here's tired
himself or he wouldn't be so fuckin' harsh with his language..."
LOL!! Yes!
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
And she did that another time too... can't remember who the Doc was
talking to at the time.
Let's face it, Jane's a bloody scream. I love every minute she's on
screen.

(FYI, Robin Weigert's website: http://www.robinweigert.com/.)
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
I missed her being largely absent in last night's ep
Yeah, so did I.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
-- Charlie too
The funniest bit was when Charlie gets the vaccine and passes out. Jane
says something like, oh for fuckssake, and Charlie blames it on not
having et breakfast (or the like). :-D
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
-- but it was another great one!
It was good as usual, but darker than usual (if that's possible...less
comic relief, maybe, what with it being Jane & Charlie lite).
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
I like how they wind things up quickly [with Flora and Miles for
example]. They don't drag anything out.
And yet, the characters were pretty well developed in the short time
they were around. In spite of Miles's attempt to pace Flora, her
impatience and lack of discipline got them killed--that was shown off
quite well, IMO.

The scene where Cy and Joanie kill Flora and Miles is very emotionally
charged, and quite shocking, I think. I was completely drawn into the
room with them, and felt quite sick after.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
So... Flora called Joanie a dyke. Is Joanie a dyke, or does she
perhaps use that as an excuse to keep Cy at bay? To "account" for why
she wouldn't be interested in him? (It would be easier to say she
isn't interested in men all together than to 'offend' Cy's ego by
saying it's him she can't stand -- even though he knows it.)
Well, she kissed the whore while she was looking him in the eye. Was
she reminding him where her interests always will be? And she got
pretty snuggly with Flora when Cy wasn't around to witness. If she's
playing at dyke for Cy's benefit only, what was that about, then?
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Or did Flora just use that term loosely to be mean?
I think she pretty much sussed Joanie's nature after having spent the
previous night being cuddled within an inch of her life. ;-D Anyway,
she referred to Joanie as a dyke outside Joanie's presence, so she
wasn't trying to be hurtful. I think it was just her way of showing off
her street savv to Miles, to make him believe that she has everything
covered and that nothing gets past her (haha, NOT, as it turns out).
l***@large.com
2004-05-18 04:33:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
[Re Jane's bedside manner:]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
The doc told her one of the smallpox patients got relief from having
a wet cloth pressed to his mouth, and Jane says to the guy, "I'm
just gonna put this on your fuckin' lips." ROTFL!!
What's funnier is when the Doc gets short with someone and Jane
apologizes for his language and rudeness! Ha! Like when he told the
Rev he needed to get some rest and Jane says, "Doc here's tired
himself or he wouldn't be so fuckin' harsh with his language..."
LOL!! Yes!
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
And she did that another time too... can't remember who the Doc was
talking to at the time.
Let's face it, Jane's a bloody scream. I love every minute she's on
screen.
And I fear she's left us now! Noooo! That was so sweet how Charlie
offered her a job. She just can't get past her alcoholism. Even the Doc
tried.

Hey.. speaking of the Doc... I thought of you when they pointed out he
had to turn down the position of Health General (or whatever) b/c he'd
been in trouble with the law seven times for grave-robbing! Maybe he IS
creepy! <HA!> Still gotta love him.
Post by Tulgey Wood
(FYI, Robin Weigert's website: http://www.robinweigert.com/.)
(I'll check that out, thanks.)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
I missed her being largely absent in last night's ep
Yeah, so did I.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
-- Charlie too
The funniest bit was when Charlie gets the vaccine and passes out. Jane
says something like, oh for fuckssake, and Charlie blames it on not
having et breakfast (or the like). :-D
And how about a few eps back when Charlie and Jane are at the Doc's to
see Sophia (squarehead kid) and Doc asks them to be quiet and Jane
whispers something like, "You should hear him snore!" (referring to
Charlie) and Charlie looks at Jane, then looks at Doc and says "Snorin's
beyond a man's help" then indicates Jane... like she COULD help her loud
mouth but he can't help his snoring! The way Jane was looking at him and
the whole way the scene came off was just so good, I LMAO. Whoever plays
Charlie Utter, he's a damn good actor. Deceptively simple. And Jane and
Doc... the cast is just ... nearly every single one of them could get an
Emmy. And together they're just unbeatable.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
-- but it was another great one!
It was good as usual, but darker than usual (if that's possible...less
comic relief, maybe, what with it being Jane & Charlie lite).
Yeah, it was darker, that's true. And yesterday's was dark too. It's
kinda neat though how they don't let any particular emotional flavor set
in. Like I'd just gotten all settled in when it started, and they killed
Bill. Then just when I thought I had everyone squared away, they started
making Al more empathetic and Cy stepped in... now they killed Flora and
Miles in this brutal way... and Jane is leaving... the Rev is going
nuts... it moves so fast yet it's able to keep its continuity and
integrity without labeling itself or "identifying itself" in any way.
It's as changeable as the towns and people were then... life and death
was quick. No one held on to anything. Everything was up in the air.
It's an amazing accomplishment artistically for them to capture that
without making people feel there is no center or core. (Oddly, that core
is the Gem! "Al is the one cocksucker we can rely on to stay fucking put
and be there while everyone else goes fucking nuts around him!") Even
Seth is not as stable as Al.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
I like how they wind things up quickly [with Flora and Miles for
example]. They don't drag anything out.
And yet, the characters were pretty well developed in the short time
they were around.
Yeah. Wolf and I were saying that same thing.
Post by Tulgey Wood
In spite of Miles's attempt to pace Flora, her
impatience and lack of discipline got them killed--that was shown off
quite well, IMO.
Cy flustered her. One cutthroat recognizes another.
Post by Tulgey Wood
The scene where Cy and Joanie kill Flora and Miles is very emotionally
charged, and quite shocking, I think. I was completely drawn into the
room with them, and felt quite sick after.
Yeah, that was hard to watch.

And (from last night's ep) it looks like Cy thinks Eddie is partial to
little boys? That was a weird conversation... Cy can feel his closest
partners pulling away. But Eddie was all chummy with Cy until Cy had
Andy dumped in the woods and wouldn't tell him that he sent the kid for
vaccine. That's when Eddie started pulling away. And Cy didn't like his
attitude, so I guess he thought he's scare him into remembering who the
boss is, by making him watch the killings. But I have to say that if
Eddie has been with Cy that long, it doesn't quite make sense that he's
only now seeing this side of Cy.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
So... Flora called Joanie a dyke. Is Joanie a dyke, or does she
perhaps use that as an excuse to keep Cy at bay? To "account" for why
she wouldn't be interested in him? (It would be easier to say she
isn't interested in men all together than to 'offend' Cy's ego by
saying it's him she can't stand -- even though he knows it.)
Well, she kissed the whore while she was looking him in the eye. Was
she reminding him where her interests always will be? And she got
pretty snuggly with Flora when Cy wasn't around to witness. If she's
playing at dyke for Cy's benefit only, what was that about, then?
Could be she has a nurturing nature. (I want her to be gay of course, I
just don't wanna start thinking she is then be disappointed.) Methinks
women being bisexual then was normal, however. So I don't know how much
any of it really means.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Or did Flora just use that term loosely to be mean?
I think she pretty much sussed Joanie's nature after having spent the
previous night being cuddled within an inch of her life. ;-D Anyway,
she referred to Joanie as a dyke outside Joanie's presence, so she
wasn't trying to be hurtful.
True.
Post by Tulgey Wood
I think it was just her way of showing off
her street savv to Miles, to make him believe that she has everything
covered and that nothing gets past her (haha, NOT, as it turns out).
Little dumbshit. :)
Tulgey Wood
2004-05-23 22:47:27 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Jane's a bloody scream. I love every minute she's on screen.
And I fear she's left us now! Noooo!
Well, if she's really leaving, I guess they've chosen not to go into her
history as a Pony Express rider. Seems like having her work as a rider
for Charlie would be an excellent way to continue the Calamity Jane
tale. IAC, they were just beginning to explore the depths of her
character. It'd be a shame for them to drop kick her, now.
Post by l***@large.com
That was so sweet how Charlie offered her a job. She just can't get
past her alcoholism. Even the Doc tried.
I thought it was sort of off that they'd focus so suddenly on her hard
drinking as an excuse to boot her off the show. I gotta say, I didn't
see that one coming.
Post by l***@large.com
Hey.. speaking of the Doc... I thought of you when they pointed out he
had to turn down the position of Health General (or whatever) b/c he'd
been in trouble with the law seven times for grave-robbing! Maybe he IS
creepy! <HA!> Still gotta love him.
That's *why* I love him. Anyway, given his introductory scene in
episode one, we might have known he'd be into practicing his anatomy
research on cadavers. :-D

[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
And how about a few eps back when Charlie and Jane are at the Doc's to
see Sophia (squarehead kid) and Doc asks them to be quiet and Jane
whispers something like, "You should hear him snore!" (referring to
Charlie) and Charlie looks at Jane, then looks at Doc and says "Snorin's
beyond a man's help" then indicates Jane... like she COULD help her loud
mouth but he can't help his snoring! The way Jane was looking at him and
the whole way the scene came off was just so good, I LMAO.
ROTFL!! That was hilarious! I LMAO, too. :-)
Post by l***@large.com
Whoever plays Charlie Utter, he's a damn good actor. Deceptively
simple.
Dayton Callie. He has a strange filmography--one you wouldn't expect to
have led to a part in Deadwood, IAC: http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0130502/.
Post by l***@large.com
And Jane and Doc... the cast is just ... nearly every single one of
them could get an Emmy. And together they're just unbeatable.
Yep, one of the best ensemble casts I've seen.

[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
It's kinda neat though how they don't let any particular emotional
flavor set in. Like I'd just gotten all settled in when it started,
and they killed Bill. Then just when I thought I had everyone squared
away, they started making Al more empathetic and Cy stepped in...
Cy is just awful...
Post by l***@large.com
now they killed Flora and Miles in this brutal way...
...just horrible. Truly evil.
Post by l***@large.com
and Jane is
leaving...
I hope not.
Post by l***@large.com
the Rev is going nuts...
He's epileptic. (He has grand mals, and this past week we found out
he's also experiencing odor auras.) He's trying to come to terms with
his condition the only way he can, and interprets it as God's Will. Doc
tells him otherwise.
Post by l***@large.com
it moves so fast yet it's able to keep its continuity and integrity
without labeling itself or "identifying itself" in any way. It's as
changeable as the towns and people were then... life and death was
quick. No one held on to anything. Everything was up in the air. It's
an amazing accomplishment artistically for them to capture that
without making people feel there is no center or core.
Good points!
Post by l***@large.com
(Oddly, that core is the Gem! "Al is the one cocksucker we can rely on
to stay fucking put and be there while everyone else goes fucking
nuts around him!")
LOL!! Swearengen in 2004! :-D
Post by l***@large.com
Even Seth is not as stable as Al.
He's young, yet. Al probably hasn't always had such a cool head.
Apparently, he snuffed someone in Chicago and had to leg it into the
territories. Maybe the killing wasn't premeditated.

[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
The scene where Cy and Joanie kill Flora and Miles is very emotionally
charged, and quite shocking, I think. I was completely drawn into the
room with them, and felt quite sick after.
Yeah, that was hard to watch.
And (from last night's ep) it looks like Cy thinks Eddie is partial to
little boys? That was a weird conversation...
God, yeah, it was weird. That's the second scene with Cy in that's
given me a major wiggins. I was about to crawl outta my skin watching
them. Cy is just...well, he's a very major wacko, I think. Bad vibes,
bad vibes (call me a hippie, but). ;-)
Post by l***@large.com
Cy can feel his closest partners pulling away.
Cy goes psychoid when he can't control situations and manipulate people.
Post by l***@large.com
But Eddie was all chummy with Cy until Cy had Andy dumped in the woods
and wouldn't tell him that he sent the kid for vaccine. That's when
Eddie started pulling away. And Cy didn't like his attitude, so I
guess he thought he's scare him into remembering who the boss is, by
making him watch the killings. But I have to say that if Eddie has
been with Cy that long, it doesn't quite make sense that he's only
now seeing this side of Cy.
Maybe this is the first time Cy's felt this out of control and Eddie is
only now seeing his true character. Maybe until he dumped Andy, Cy's
actions had stopped just short of offending Eddie's moral sensibilities.

If I were Eddie (and thank the gods I'm not) and Cy talked to me like
that, I'd tell him fuck you, too, and then I'd leave the son of a
bitch. That'd be the last he'd see of me. Cy's going to kill Eddie,
mark me.
l***@large.com
2004-05-30 02:24:10 UTC
Permalink
[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Jane's a bloody scream. I love every minute she's on screen.
And I fear she's left us now! Noooo!
Well, if she's really leaving, I guess they've chosen not to go into her
history as a Pony Express rider. Seems like having her work as a rider
for Charlie would be an excellent way to continue the Calamity Jane
tale. IAC, they were just beginning to explore the depths of her
character. It'd be a shame for them to drop kick her, now.
Oh goody, she did pony express? That's too incidental with Utter
starting a freight bizness. Maybe she'll be back.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
That was so sweet how Charlie offered her a job. She just can't get
past her alcoholism. Even the Doc tried.
I thought it was sort of off that they'd focus so suddenly on her hard
drinking as an excuse to boot her off the show. I gotta say, I didn't
see that one coming.
They've been focusing on her hard drinking all along, but as an
excuse... (I assume you mean with her saying she "won't be a drunk where
he's buried")...what's kinda funny about that is she didn't mind being a
drunk where he was _living_! :) I hope I hope I hope she comes back...
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Hey.. speaking of the Doc... I thought of you when they pointed out he
had to turn down the position of Health General (or whatever) b/c he'd
been in trouble with the law seven times for grave-robbing! Maybe he IS
creepy! <HA!> Still gotta love him.
That's *why* I love him. Anyway, given his introductory scene in
episode one, we might have known he'd be into practicing his anatomy
research on cadavers. :-D
(Did you see the tear when he asked Jane to stop drinking?)

[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Whoever plays Charlie Utter, he's a damn good actor. Deceptively
simple.
Dayton Callie. He has a strange filmography--one you wouldn't expect to
have led to a part in Deadwood, IAC: http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0130502/.
That's cool he wrote a couple movies (and co-wrote another). I think
I'll check out The Last Days Of Frankie The Fly when I get a chance.
He's also done some producing I see....wow he's been in the biz many
many years. It shows.
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
the Rev is going nuts...
He's epileptic. (He has grand mals, and this past week we found out
he's also experiencing odor auras.) He's trying to come to terms with
his condition the only way he can, and interprets it as God's Will. Doc
tells him otherwise.
It started out as epilepsy but has progressed beyond that, no? The tumor
seems to be messing up all aspects of his thinking and mental ability --
and probably brain chemistry. The fits are the least of his problem at
this point! Poor guy. The one touching scene last week was when he came
into Sol and Seth's place and asked if they were his friends. Seth was
patient for once. I like the Rev and feel bad for his plight. It doesn't
look like he's going to last much longer.

[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
(Oddly, that core is the Gem! "Al is the one cocksucker we can rely on
to stay fucking put and be there while everyone else goes fucking
nuts around him!")
LOL!! Swearengen in 2004! :-D
Post by l***@large.com
Even Seth is not as stable as Al.
He's young, yet. Al probably hasn't always had such a cool head.
Apparently, he snuffed someone in Chicago and had to leg it into the
territories. Maybe the killing wasn't premeditated.
Like the 80-billion murders we've seen him commit since the series
started? LOL. Okay... only a few, but they were whoppers. Like last
week's bathtub scene with the junkie.
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
And (from last night's ep) it looks like Cy thinks Eddie is partial to
little boys? That was a weird conversation...
God, yeah, it was weird. That's the second scene with Cy in that's
given me a major wiggins. I was about to crawl outta my skin watching
them. Cy is just...well, he's a very major wacko, I think. Bad vibes,
bad vibes (call me a hippie, but). ;-)
He *does* have bad vibes.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Cy can feel his closest partners pulling away.
Cy goes psychoid when he can't control situations and manipulate people.
Yeah I think that's it.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
But Eddie was all chummy with Cy until Cy had Andy dumped in the woods
and wouldn't tell him that he sent the kid for vaccine. That's when
Eddie started pulling away. And Cy didn't like his attitude, so I
guess he thought he's scare him into remembering who the boss is, by
making him watch the killings. But I have to say that if Eddie has
been with Cy that long, it doesn't quite make sense that he's only
now seeing this side of Cy.
Maybe this is the first time Cy's felt this out of control and Eddie is
only now seeing his true character. Maybe until he dumped Andy, Cy's
actions had stopped just short of offending Eddie's moral sensibilities.
...all makes sense.
Post by Tulgey Wood
If I were Eddie (and thank the gods I'm not) and Cy talked to me like
that, I'd tell him fuck you, too, and then I'd leave the son of a
bitch. That'd be the last he'd see of me. Cy's going to kill Eddie,
mark me.
Especially if Eddie is caught stealing from Cy. Eddie thinks he can get
away with it because Cy won't see it, but Cy will SMELL it.

Maybe when Eddie gets wacked, that's when Joanie will kill Cy... ??
Tulgey Wood
2004-05-31 04:08:41 UTC
Permalink
[Re Calamity Jane:]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
And I fear she's left us now! Noooo!
Well, if she's really leaving, I guess they've chosen not to go into her
history as a Pony Express rider. Seems like having her work as a rider
for Charlie would be an excellent way to continue the Calamity Jane
tale. IAC, they were just beginning to explore the depths of her
character. It'd be a shame for them to drop kick her, now.
Oh goody, she did pony express? That's too incidental with Utter
starting a freight bizness. Maybe she'll be back.
That's what I was thinking. Plus, the actor was still billed in the
opening credits last week, even though CJ had gone. Seems to me they'd
remove the credit if the actor wasn't associated with the series any
longer. But...what the hell do *I* know? :-D

[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Hey.. speaking of the Doc... I thought of you when they pointed out he
had to turn down the position of Health General (or whatever) b/c he'd
been in trouble with the law seven times for grave-robbing! Maybe he IS
creepy! <HA!> Still gotta love him.
That's *why* I love him. Anyway, given his introductory scene in
episode one, we might have known he'd be into practicing his anatomy
research on cadavers. :-D
(Did you see the tear when he asked Jane to stop drinking?)
Yep. He cares about her.
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
the Rev is going nuts...
He's epileptic. (He has grand mals, and this past week we found out
he's also experiencing odor auras.) He's trying to come to terms with
his condition the only way he can, and interprets it as God's Will. Doc
tells him otherwise.
It started out as epilepsy but has progressed beyond that, no?
Yeah, apparently it started as a brain tumor, the initial symptoms of
which were epilepsy. Last week, we found out the doc thinks the rev has
a brain tumor. But maybe it's just Cy, having a little fun with the
rev. <snort> And if he gets bored before the rev carks it, the recovery
will be hailed as miraculous.
Post by l***@large.com
The tumor seems to be messing up all aspects of his thinking and
mental ability -- and probably brain chemistry. The fits are the
least of his problem at this point! Poor guy. The one touching scene
last week was when he came into Sol and Seth's place and asked if
they were his friends.
That was heartbreaking. I cried. <sniffle sniffle>
Post by l***@large.com
Seth was patient for once.
He's a kind man, really. (Note how patient he is with the Alma.) :-D
Post by l***@large.com
I like the Rev and feel bad for his plight. It doesn't look like he's
going to last much longer.
So it would seem. Unless...the doc convinces him he has nothing to lose
by letting him drill a hole and siphon the tumor out with a straw. But
that's...nah, that's just too icky, even by Deadwood standards.

[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Even Seth is not as stable as Al.
He's young, yet. Al probably hasn't always had such a cool head.
Apparently, he snuffed someone in Chicago and had to leg it into the
territories. Maybe the killing wasn't premeditated.
Like the 80-billion murders we've seen him commit since the series
started? LOL. Okay... only a few, but they were whoppers. Like last
week's bathtub scene with the junkie.
All methodically planned and executed. If the Chicago killing was done
in a flash of anger, then there were likely a bunch of very loose,
incriminating strings left dangling about.

[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
If I were Eddie (and thank the gods I'm not) and Cy talked to me like
that, I'd tell him fuck you, too, and then I'd leave the son of a
bitch. That'd be the last he'd see of me. Cy's going to kill Eddie,
mark me.
Especially if Eddie is caught stealing from Cy. Eddie thinks he can get
away with it because Cy won't see it, but Cy will SMELL it.
Brilliant observation! Poor Eddie is all visuals, unfortunately for
him. (The actor who plays Eddie, Ricky Jay, played a magician in the
seventh season X-Files ep, The Great Maleeni. He did a lot of tricky
card moves and such, so I'm guessing he must be a professional magician
as well as an actor, and was cast as Eddie because he was proficient in
abracadabra.)
Post by l***@large.com
Maybe when Eddie gets wacked, that's when Joanie will kill Cy... ??
One can only hope. (Though one would *love* to help her.) :-D
Calamity Coyote ()
2004-05-31 18:34:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
[Re Calamity Jane:]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
And I fear she's left us now! Noooo!
Well, if she's really leaving, I guess they've chosen not to go into her
history as a Pony Express rider. Seems like having her work as a rider
for Charlie would be an excellent way to continue the Calamity Jane
tale. IAC, they were just beginning to explore the depths of her
character. It'd be a shame for them to drop kick her, now.
Oh goody, she did pony express? That's too incidental with Utter
starting a freight bizness. Maybe she'll be back.
That's what I was thinking. Plus, the actor was still billed in the
opening credits last week, even though CJ had gone. Seems to me they'd
remove the credit if the actor wasn't associated with the series any
longer. But...what the hell do *I* know? :-D
<G> I noticed a few weeks ago when re-watching a DW ep, that they
still had Keith Caradine listed in the credits. Maybe it's a
contractual point that can be negotiated in some cases where the
character plays a somewhat major part even if brief. OTOH IIRC there
was one ep a few after WB died, where someone flashed back very
briefly on the scene in the bar when WB was killed. Maybe it was that
ep where Caradine was listed. I can't remember now and I haven't
noticed since if he's listed or not.

IAC I hope Jane comes back too. And it's promising, if nothing else,
that she's still listed.
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Hey.. speaking of the Doc... I thought of you when they pointed out he
had to turn down the position of Health General (or whatever) b/c he'd
been in trouble with the law seven times for grave-robbing! Maybe he IS
creepy! <HA!> Still gotta love him.
That's *why* I love him. Anyway, given his introductory scene in
episode one, we might have known he'd be into practicing his anatomy
research on cadavers. :-D
(Did you see the tear when he asked Jane to stop drinking?)
Yep. He cares about her.
I think he's a caring guy in general. A true doctor. He even got pissy
with the whores for making fun of the Rev., though he wasn't very
polite about it. ("Did you know when you giggle you leak piss?") A
simple, "Don't make fun of another's ailments!" mighta done as well.
But Doc does have an underlying surliness about him, being so put upon
and all.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
the Rev is going nuts...
He's epileptic. (He has grand mals, and this past week we found out
he's also experiencing odor auras.) He's trying to come to terms with
his condition the only way he can, and interprets it as God's Will. Doc
tells him otherwise.
It started out as epilepsy but has progressed beyond that, no?
Yeah, apparently it started as a brain tumor, the initial symptoms of
which were epilepsy. Last week, we found out the doc thinks the rev has
a brain tumor. But maybe it's just Cy, having a little fun with the
rev. <snort> And if he gets bored before the rev carks it, the recovery
will be hailed as miraculous.
:) Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen Cy and the Rev in
the same scene except at the plague meeting when they were both in
attendance.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
The tumor seems to be messing up all aspects of his thinking and
mental ability -- and probably brain chemistry. The fits are the
least of his problem at this point! Poor guy. The one touching scene
last week was when he came into Sol and Seth's place and asked if
they were his friends.
That was heartbreaking. I cried. <sniffle sniffle>
Me too. Both times I watched it. (We saw it again last night.)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Seth was patient for once.
He's a kind man, really. (Note how patient he is with the Alma.) :-D
Kind, yes. Patient, no. And especially not with the Rev, in the past
anyway. So it was nice to see him respond compassionately. And Sol is
just such a little sweetheart.

Even Al was compassionate when he kicked the Rev out the first time.
"That damn piana!" I thought that scene between Dan and Al was
hysterical, where Dan's eating peaches outa the can with his knife
(the one he kills with!), and Al's mad that Dan ordered the piano
RIGHT after he mentioned wanting one (to out-do Cy moving in), instead
of waiting a day or two so Al could have thought it through. Al points
his finger at Dan as he leaves and Dan points his knife point back.
They have a really comfortable relationship where they know each other
so well. They really do interact like an old married couple.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
I like the Rev and feel bad for his plight. It doesn't look like he's
going to last much longer.
So it would seem. Unless...the doc convinces him he has nothing to lose
by letting him drill a hole and siphon the tumor out with a straw. But
that's...nah, that's just too icky, even by Deadwood standards.
<G!> Well, even Al asked the Doc if anything could be done (I even got
the feeling he'd pay for it -- the Rev reminding him of his epileptic
brother and all), but the Doc said there was nothing he could do. So
that answers that. Though the tumor could shrink on its own and the
Rev might recover his sensibilities... only to have it return in a
season or two and wipe him out dead. Or not. Guess we'll have to see.
It would be interesting if it shrunk and he got his senses back only
to find the reverse of the Glory Train ... that life is random and he
no longer believes in God... but is still the same caring, sweet man.
Though if he wasn't "The Preacher" he wouldn't have a real "role" in
the town/story. Maybe he continues to preach without believing, hoping
his faith comes back. Anyway -- it's just so cool how even the
'secondary' characters in DW are so fleshed out.
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
If I were Eddie (and thank the gods I'm not) and Cy talked to me like
that, I'd tell him fuck you, too, and then I'd leave the son of a
bitch. That'd be the last he'd see of me. Cy's going to kill Eddie,
mark me.
Especially if Eddie is caught stealing from Cy. Eddie thinks he can get
away with it because Cy won't see it, but Cy will SMELL it.
Brilliant observation! Poor Eddie is all visuals, unfortunately for
him. (The actor who plays Eddie, Ricky Jay, played a magician in the
seventh season X-Files ep, The Great Maleeni. He did a lot of tricky
card moves and such, so I'm guessing he must be a professional magician
as well as an actor, and was cast as Eddie because he was proficient in
abracadabra.)
Cool! Another example of great casting!
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Maybe when Eddie gets wacked, that's when Joanie will kill Cy... ??
One can only hope. (Though one would *love* to help her.) :-D
That was so sweet how she invited Charlie to sit at her breakfast
table. But then he left right away... Seems he woulda been more
interested in not offending her, and visiting with her. But I guess
he's trying to fit in among the men now that his best friend is dead
and he has his biz there. And he *is* very sociable though ya don't
really think of him that way.

Calamity Coyote
Tulgey Wood
2004-06-17 04:57:47 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Hey.. speaking of the Doc... I thought of you when they pointed
out he had to turn down the position of Health General (or
whatever) b/c he'd been in trouble with the law seven times for
grave-robbing! Maybe he IS creepy! <HA!> Still gotta love him.
That's *why* I love him. Anyway, given his introductory scene in
episode one, we might have known he'd be into practicing his
anatomy research on cadavers. :-D
(Did you see the tear when he asked Jane to stop drinking?)
Yep. He cares about her.
I think he's a caring guy in general. A true doctor.
An ideal doctor--takes his Hippocratic oath seriously, fully understands
the limitations of his skills, and doesn't allow religion to interfere
with his humanity. Was Doc Cochran the norm for 19th century doctors,
or is he such an idealized version that he never did and never will
exist? IAC, his is a rare to extinct species these days.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
He even got pissy with the whores for making fun of the Rev., though
he wasn't very polite about it. ("Did you know when you giggle you
leak piss?") A simple, "Don't make fun of another's ailments!" mighta
done as well. But Doc does have an underlying surliness about him,
being so put upon and all.
He feels horribly ineffective against the medical challenges of his
time, and is frustrated to the eyeballs by what he is unable to change.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
the Rev is going nuts...
He's epileptic. (He has grand mals, and this past week we found
out he's also experiencing odor auras.) He's trying to come to
terms with his condition the only way he can, and interprets it as
God's Will. Doc tells him otherwise.
It started out as epilepsy but has progressed beyond that, no?
Yeah, apparently it started as a brain tumor, the initial symptoms of
which were epilepsy. Last week, we found out the doc thinks the rev
has a brain tumor. But maybe it's just Cy, having a little fun with
the rev. <snort> And if he gets bored before the rev carks it, the
recovery will be hailed as miraculous.
:) Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen Cy and the Rev in
the same scene except at the plague meeting when they were both in
attendance.
I didn't mean Cy and the Rev were one and the same. I meant Cy, a
demon, possessing demonic powers, was mucking about with the Rev for
grins. (But we find out later, the doc believes it's God who's doing
the mucking about.)
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
The tumor seems to be messing up all aspects of his thinking and
mental ability -- and probably brain chemistry. The fits are the
least of his problem at this point! Poor guy. The one touching
scene last week was when he came into Sol and Seth's place and
asked if they were his friends.
That was heartbreaking. I cried. <sniffle sniffle>
Me too. Both times I watched it. (We saw it again last night.)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Seth was patient for once.
He's a kind man, really. (Note how patient he is with the Alma.) :-D
Kind, yes. Patient, no. And especially not with the Rev, in the past
anyway. So it was nice to see him respond compassionately.
Under certain circumstances, he's patient. So far, he hasn't smacked
the Alma upside her silly head. Hopefully, his patience with her isn't
motivated by something other than a desire to behave gentlemanly towards
women. (But we find later, he probably expected to get into her
knickers at some point, so.)
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
And Sol is just such a little sweetheart.
That he is.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Even Al was compassionate when he kicked the Rev out the first time.
"That damn piana!" I thought that scene between Dan and Al was
hysterical, where Dan's eating peaches outa the can with his knife
(the one he kills with!), and Al's mad that Dan ordered the piano
RIGHT after he mentioned wanting one (to out-do Cy moving in), instead
of waiting a day or two so Al could have thought it through. Al points
his finger at Dan as he leaves and Dan points his knife point back.
They have a really comfortable relationship where they know each other
so well. They really do interact like an old married couple.
They do, at that. Successful business partnerships are like marriages
in every respect, except (most of the time) for the sex bits. Both
sorts of relationships rely nearly exclusively on trust for their
success.

[snip]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
If I were Eddie (and thank the gods I'm not) and Cy talked to me
like that, I'd tell him fuck you, too, and then I'd leave the son
of a bitch. That'd be the last he'd see of me. Cy's going to
kill Eddie, mark me.
Especially if Eddie is caught stealing from Cy. Eddie thinks he can
get away with it because Cy won't see it, but Cy will SMELL it.
Brilliant observation! Poor Eddie is all visuals, unfortunately for
him. (The actor who plays Eddie, Ricky Jay, played a magician in
the seventh season X-Files ep, The Great Maleeni. He did a lot of
tricky card moves and such, so I'm guessing he must be a
professional magician as well as an actor, and was cast as Eddie
because he was proficient in abracadabra.)
Cool! Another example of great casting!
Did you notice that he wrote the next-to-last ep (Jewel's Boot Is Made
for Walking)? Apparently, he's a more than capable writer, too.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Maybe when Eddie gets wacked, that's when Joanie will kill Cy... ??
One can only hope. (Though one would *love* to help her.) :-D
That was so sweet how she invited Charlie to sit at her breakfast
table. But then he left right away... Seems he woulda been more
interested in not offending her, and visiting with her. But I guess
he's trying to fit in among the men now that his best friend is dead
and he has his biz there. And he *is* very sociable though ya don't
really think of him that way.
Yes, he is very sociable, and really a very sweet man, but I think
you're right about his wanting to fit in. In the day, business was
prioritized by men over all things. Men ran business, and Charlie
wanted his business to succeed, so poor Joanie had breakfast alone. If
Charlie had a wife, no doubt she'd have breakfast alone most mornings,
too.
Adrav
2004-06-17 05:22:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
If I were Eddie (and thank the gods I'm not) and Cy talked to me
like that, I'd tell him fuck you, too, and then I'd leave the son
of a bitch. That'd be the last he'd see of me. Cy's going to
kill Eddie, mark me.
Especially if Eddie is caught stealing from Cy. Eddie thinks he can
get away with it because Cy won't see it, but Cy will SMELL it.
Brilliant observation! Poor Eddie is all visuals, unfortunately for
him. (The actor who plays Eddie, Ricky Jay, played a magician in
the seventh season X-Files ep, The Great Maleeni. He did a lot of
tricky card moves and such, so I'm guessing he must be a
professional magician as well as an actor, and was cast as Eddie
because he was proficient in abracadabra.)
Cool! Another example of great casting!
Did you notice that he wrote the next-to-last ep (Jewel's Boot Is Made
for Walking)? Apparently, he's a more than capable writer, too.
Impressive accomplishments:
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0419633/
Tulgey Wood
2004-06-19 03:44:45 UTC
Permalink
[snip]

[Re Ricky Jay:]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Did you notice that he wrote the next-to-last ep (Jewel's Boot Is
Made for Walking)? Apparently, he's a more than capable writer,
too.
Impressive accomplishments: http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0419633/
Interesting bio. He's written books on magic and the history of. Don't
remember him in Magnolia, but I loved that film, and will keep an eye
out for him next time I watch it.
Calamity Coyote ()
2004-06-18 19:01:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Hey.. speaking of the Doc... I thought of you when they pointed
out he had to turn down the position of Health General (or
whatever) b/c he'd been in trouble with the law seven times for
grave-robbing! Maybe he IS creepy! <HA!> Still gotta love him.
That's *why* I love him. Anyway, given his introductory scene in
episode one, we might have known he'd be into practicing his
anatomy research on cadavers. :-D
(Did you see the tear when he asked Jane to stop drinking?)
Yep. He cares about her.
I think he's a caring guy in general. A true doctor.
An ideal doctor--takes his Hippocratic oath seriously, fully understands
the limitations of his skills, and doesn't allow religion to interfere
with his humanity.
Yeah, otherwise he wouldnta dug up those 7 bodies from the afterlife
to make chop-chop with them. <g>
Post by Tulgey Wood
Was Doc Cochran the norm for 19th century doctors,
or is he such an idealized version that he never did and never will
exist? IAC, his is a rare to extinct species these days.
Ain't that the truth!
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
He even got pissy with the whores for making fun of the Rev., though
he wasn't very polite about it. ("Did you know when you giggle you
leak piss?") A simple, "Don't make fun of another's ailments!" mighta
done as well. But Doc does have an underlying surliness about him,
being so put upon and all.
He feels horribly ineffective against the medical challenges of his
time, and is frustrated to the eyeballs by what he is unable to change.
A wonderful element that brings his character alive. I wonder if Brad
read that into the character or if it was given to him. IAC he plays
it perfectly.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
the Rev is going nuts...
He's epileptic. (He has grand mals, and this past week we found
out he's also experiencing odor auras.) He's trying to come to
terms with his condition the only way he can, and interprets it as
God's Will. Doc tells him otherwise.
It started out as epilepsy but has progressed beyond that, no?
Yeah, apparently it started as a brain tumor, the initial symptoms of
which were epilepsy. Last week, we found out the doc thinks the rev
has a brain tumor. But maybe it's just Cy, having a little fun with
the rev. <snort> And if he gets bored before the rev carks it, the
recovery will be hailed as miraculous.
:) Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen Cy and the Rev in
the same scene except at the plague meeting when they were both in
attendance.
I didn't mean Cy and the Rev were one and the same.
LOL! I knew that. I meant I never saw Cy screwing with the Rev. I
never even saw them interact except in that one scene at the Gym.
Post by Tulgey Wood
I meant Cy, a
demon, possessing demonic powers, was mucking about with the Rev for
grins. (But we find out later, the doc believes it's God who's doing
the mucking about.)
"Isn't it always?" <smirk>
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Even Al was compassionate when he kicked the Rev out the first time.
"That damn piana!" I thought that scene between Dan and Al was
hysterical, where Dan's eating peaches outa the can with his knife
(the one he kills with!), and Al's mad that Dan ordered the piano
RIGHT after he mentioned wanting one (to out-do Cy moving in), instead
of waiting a day or two so Al could have thought it through. Al points
his finger at Dan as he leaves and Dan points his knife point back.
They have a really comfortable relationship where they know each other
so well. They really do interact like an old married couple.
They do, at that. Successful business partnerships are like marriages
in every respect, except (most of the time) for the sex bits. Both
sorts of relationships rely nearly exclusively on trust for their
success.
In one ep (the one after Dan finds the gold on Alma's claim) Al makes
a point of telling Dan how much he trusts and appeciates him... it was
then I thought there's gonna come a time when Dan's gonna betray Al...
(he already did once when he didn't kill the LSG, but that wasn't
betrayal so much as a lie).

[...]

Re: Eddie's real life talents at card tricks and magic
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Cool! Another example of great casting!
Did you notice that he wrote the next-to-last ep (Jewel's Boot Is Made
for Walking)? Apparently, he's a more than capable writer, too.
No! Good catch! But when I went to check that out, it wasn't listed
(as far as I saw) at imdb under his credits. Are you sure it was his
name?

I *did* notice that a few of the writers also wrote for NYPD Blue in
1993... giving me the impression they'd hooked back up. And one of
them MacRury (IIR the spelling and the correct writer) wrote a movie I
love -- Man Without A Face. It stars Mel Gibson ( I don't like him
anymore but back then I did) and it was a really great movie. It's
about a guy (Gibson) who lives in a beautiful home on a lake back east
somewhere. Half of his face is terribly disfigured from a fire. A boy
befriends him to get tutored, and Gibson finally gives in. (Kind of a
Karate Kid relationship but less hokey.) Then the town suspects Gibson
of molesting the boy. Aside from the movie being very good, the
setting is gorgeous.

Calamity Coyote

Calamity Coyote
Tulgey Wood
2004-06-19 03:53:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Hey.. speaking of the Doc... I thought of you when they pointed
out he had to turn down the position of Health General (or
whatever) b/c he'd been in trouble with the law seven times for
grave-robbing! Maybe he IS creepy! <HA!> Still gotta love him.
That's *why* I love him. Anyway, given his introductory scene in
episode one, we might have known he'd be into practicing his
anatomy research on cadavers. :-D
(Did you see the tear when he asked Jane to stop drinking?)
Yep. He cares about her.
I think he's a caring guy in general. A true doctor.
An ideal doctor--takes his Hippocratic oath seriously, fully
understands the limitations of his skills, and doesn't allow
religion to interfere with his humanity.
Yeah, otherwise he wouldnta dug up those 7 bodies from the afterlife
to make chop-chop with them. <g>
Yep. Nineteenth century equivalent to embryonic stem cell research. A
hundred thirty years ago it was morally offensive to muck about with
afters. Now it's morally offensive to muck about with befores. Maybe
in another hundred thirty years we'll be past getting our frilly little
panties in a wad over befores and afters and can actually get down to
fixing people who are sick.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Was Doc Cochran the norm for 19th century doctors, or is he such an
idealized version that he never did and never will exist? IAC, his
is a rare to extinct species these days.
Ain't that the truth!
Unfortunately.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
He even got pissy with the whores for making fun of the Rev., though
he wasn't very polite about it. ("Did you know when you giggle you
leak piss?") A simple, "Don't make fun of another's ailments!"
mighta done as well. But Doc does have an underlying surliness
about him, being so put upon and all.
He feels horribly ineffective against the medical challenges of his
time, and is frustrated to the eyeballs by what he is unable to change.
A wonderful element that brings his character alive. I wonder if Brad
read that into the character or if it was given to him. IAC he plays
it perfectly.
Wouldn't surprise me if it were his interpretation. He's brilliant.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
the Rev is going nuts...
He's epileptic. (He has grand mals, and this past week we found
out he's also experiencing odor auras.) He's trying to come to
terms with his condition the only way he can, and interprets it
as God's Will. Doc tells him otherwise.
It started out as epilepsy but has progressed beyond that, no?
Yeah, apparently it started as a brain tumor, the initial symptoms
of which were epilepsy. Last week, we found out the doc thinks
the rev has a brain tumor. But maybe it's just Cy, having a
little fun with the rev. <snort> And if he gets bored before the
rev carks it, the recovery will be hailed as miraculous.
:) Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen Cy and the Rev
in the same scene except at the plague meeting when they were both
in attendance.
I didn't mean Cy and the Rev were one and the same.
LOL! I knew that. I meant I never saw Cy screwing with the Rev. I
never even saw them interact except in that one scene at the Gym.
Well, it was magic, wasn't it. Demons can muck about with people
*remotely*, can't they.

(Note to self: Stop watching Buffy videos.)
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
I meant Cy, a demon, possessing demonic powers, was mucking about
with the Rev for grins. (But we find out later, the doc believes
it's God who's doing the mucking about.)
"Isn't it always?" <smirk>
Could be God's a victim of identity theft.... (Can't you just see
*that* TV ad?) <snort>
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Even Al was compassionate when he kicked the Rev out the first time.
"That damn piana!" I thought that scene between Dan and Al was
hysterical, where Dan's eating peaches outa the can with his knife
(the one he kills with!), and Al's mad that Dan ordered the piano
RIGHT after he mentioned wanting one (to out-do Cy moving in),
instead of waiting a day or two so Al could have thought it
through. Al points his finger at Dan as he leaves and Dan points
his knife point back. They have a really comfortable relationship
where they know each other so well. They really do interact like an
old married couple.
They do, at that. Successful business partnerships are like
marriages in every respect, except (most of the time) for the sex
bits. Both sorts of relationships rely nearly exclusively on trust
for their success.
In one ep (the one after Dan finds the gold on Alma's claim) Al makes
a point of telling Dan how much he trusts and appeciates him... it
was then I thought there's gonna come a time when Dan's gonna betray
Al... (he already did once when he didn't kill the LSG, but that
wasn't betrayal so much as a lie).
Yeah, a lie of omission, really. And, as it turns out, Al's cool with
the kid still breathing.

I think Dan's capable of betraying Al (no honor among thieves, and all),
but if it had come down to him or the kid, I think Dan would have sucked
it up and killed the kid. Dan may betray Al one day, in which case
it'll be interesting to see over what.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Re: Eddie's real life talents at card tricks and magic
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Cool! Another example of great casting!
Did you notice that he wrote the next-to-last ep (Jewel's Boot Is
Made for Walking)? Apparently, he's a more than capable writer,
too.
No! Good catch! But when I went to check that out, it wasn't listed
(as far as I saw) at imdb under his credits. Are you sure it was his
name?
Yes, it were he. You can check HBO's Deadwood site for credits, too:
http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/?ntrack_para1=leftnav_category0_show2.
Click on the Episode Guide link and choose an episode from the drop down
box. The director/writer credits are listed under the ep titles.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
I *did* notice that a few of the writers also wrote for NYPD Blue in
1993... giving me the impression they'd hooked back up.
Isn't David Milch one of the NYPD Blue creators? (I never saw the
show.)
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
And one of them MacRury (IIR the spelling and the correct writer)
wrote a movie I love -- Man Without A Face. It stars Mel Gibson ( I
don't like him anymore but back then I did) and it was a really great
movie. It's about a guy (Gibson) who lives in a beautiful home on a
lake back east somewhere. Half of his face is terribly disfigured
from a fire. A boy befriends him to get tutored, and Gibson finally
gives in. (Kind of a Karate Kid relationship but less hokey.) Then
the town suspects Gibson of molesting the boy. Aside from the movie
being very good, the setting is gorgeous.
I haven't seen that movie, but next time it's on cable (or next time I'm
in the video rental), I'll look for it.
l***@large.com
2004-06-19 04:14:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
:) Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen Cy and the Rev
in the same scene except at the plague meeting when they were both
in attendance.
I didn't mean Cy and the Rev were one and the same.
LOL! I knew that. I meant I never saw Cy screwing with the Rev. I
never even saw them interact except in that one scene at the Gym.
Well, it was magic, wasn't it. Demons can muck about with people
*remotely*, can't they.
Yes, of course! I don't know what I was thinking!
Post by Tulgey Wood
(Note to self: Stop watching Buffy videos.)
LOL!
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
I meant Cy, a demon, possessing demonic powers, was mucking about
with the Rev for grins. (But we find out later, the doc believes
it's God who's doing the mucking about.)
"Isn't it always?" <smirk>
Could be God's a victim of identity theft.... (Can't you just see
*that* TV ad?) <snort>
Ha! I love those commercials. I always un-mute for them.

[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
In one ep (the one after Dan finds the gold on Alma's claim) Al makes
a point of telling Dan how much he trusts and appeciates him... it
was then I thought there's gonna come a time when Dan's gonna betray
Al... (he already did once when he didn't kill the LSG, but that
wasn't betrayal so much as a lie).
Yeah, a lie of omission, really. And, as it turns out, Al's cool with
the kid still breathing.
I think Dan's capable of betraying Al (no honor among thieves, and all),
but if it had come down to him or the kid, I think Dan would have sucked
it up and killed the kid. Dan may betray Al one day, in which case
it'll be interesting to see over what.
I think he woulda killed the kid too. And it will be interesting to see
over what. They might just save that for the end of the series... but I
wouldn't be surprised if it's another kid -- maybe Dan will take up with
a woman and have a kid of his own, and will have to turn on Al to
protect it. Or maybe he'll take up with a woman who has a kid already.
IAC they already made a huge point that little girls' are Dan's soft
spot... so it's a fair bet that will play into it somehow (providing it
happens at some point).
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Re: Eddie's real life talents at card tricks and magic
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Cool! Another example of great casting!
Did you notice that he wrote the next-to-last ep (Jewel's Boot Is
Made for Walking)? Apparently, he's a more than capable writer,
too.
No! Good catch! But when I went to check that out, it wasn't listed
(as far as I saw) at imdb under his credits. Are you sure it was his
name?
http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/?ntrack_para1=leftnav_category0_show2.
Click on the Episode Guide link and choose an episode from the drop down
box. The director/writer credits are listed under the ep titles.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
I *did* notice that a few of the writers also wrote for NYPD Blue in
1993... giving me the impression they'd hooked back up.
Isn't David Milch one of the NYPD Blue creators? (I never saw the
show.)
Oh, that's right, I forgot. (I never watched NYPD Blue either btw.)

Calamity Coyote

Calamity Coyote ()
2004-05-31 18:44:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Seth was patient for once.
He's a kind man, really. (Note how patient he is with the Alma.) :-D
:) I meant to add, yes, he's patient with the Alma. :) In a sickening,
romantic, "you're the kind of good woman I'd want if I wasn't already
married to my brother's widow" kinda way. :) Let's hope THEY never get
together! BARF.
Calamity Coyote ()
2004-05-11 21:11:41 UTC
Permalink
[moot point now since we've both come to agree we'd miss the cussin'
were it taken out at this point]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
What I get from you is that you think it was a mistake in any case,
established practice or not.
Yes. But at this point I'm completely inured to it. And as you said
you would do, I think I'd miss it, too, if suddenly they stopped writing
Jane saying things like, "It's Jane Canary calling for Doc fuckin'
Cochran!"
TOO funny!
Post by Tulgey Wood
Or Cy commenting to ladies on his "feelin's of fuckin'
affection."
:) And he resents her for it, clearly.
Post by Tulgey Wood
And if they toned it down, then E B wouldn't deliver lines
about Jane like, "Her gutter mouth and the widow in an opium stupor--a
conversation for the ages."
He's so friggin scummy! The way he spoke to Mr. Woo too in the 2nd or
3rd ep when he brought the Irish guy there to be eaten by the pigs and
said something to Woo like, "Let the pigs et... let the dog et...
heck, eat him yourself you fucking heathen..." and was smiling the
whole time like he was saying the opposite. But I have a feeling Mr.
Woo speaks English (or at least understands it) perfectly. Because
when Jack was in the slaughterhouse waiting for trial and Seth barged
in, they held on Mr. Woo's face a long moment as he watched Seth
enter. You get the idea this guy doesn't miss a trick and just "plays
dumb."
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
I brought the Mel Gibson/Glen Close version of Hamlet to my Mom's once
to have her watch it. I love that version [though now my feelings for
Mel are different and I likely won't ever watch it again]. IAC as
soon as it started Mom asked, "Does this have a happy ending?" LOL.
LOL!! I've always thought WS should have subtitled Hamlet, Prince of
Denmark "Or, Everyone Dies." :-D
That works! :-D
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Uh.... it's SHAKESPEARE! HeLLO. We laughed really hard then she
complained all the way through. Especially at the end. (No good deed
goes unpunished, dontcha know.)
Mom must be WWII vintage--that generation are totally anal about
endings. ;-D
She was born in the late 1920's. But I'm pretty anal about endings
myself. However not nearly so much as she is. She wants a happy ending
only and only reads a happy ending as "everyone gets what they want
and lives happily ever after." Whereas there are other types of "up"
endings that aren't necessarily *happy* but poignant and ultimately
positive. Like American Beauty. Or Spitfire Grill. Or Fried Green
Tomatoes. All of which she would consider bummers, while I don't.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
As Andy would say. "Ah a-pala-gyze" but I cannot even begin to mix ROC
and EB in my head. I'd need a bad acid trip for that.
LOL! Fuggedabout ROC. EB Farnum does a perfectly petulant Lady M. :-D
You are so right. That he does. All kidding aside. He really does.
But he does a mean Gollum too. ;)
A mean *Hollywood* Gollum...I'll take your word for it. ;-)
Ah come on! :) When's the last time you read LOTR? Don't you remember
Gollum slinking about on the rocks nervously, talking to himself in
3rd person, self-consumed and utterly self-devoted? The slimiest of
creatures? Dudn't that sound like EB just a little? :)
Tulgey Wood
2004-05-15 03:54:46 UTC
Permalink
[snip]

[Re E B Farnum:]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
He's so friggin scummy! The way he spoke to Mr. Woo too in the 2nd or
3rd ep when he brought the Irish guy there to be eaten by the pigs and
said something to Woo like, "Let the pigs et... let the dog et...
heck, eat him yourself you fucking heathen..." and was smiling the
whole time like he was saying the opposite. But I have a feeling Mr.
Woo speaks English (or at least understands it) perfectly.
Even if he doesn't, he probably has Farnum's number and doesn't trust
his tone of voice to match his tone of face.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Because when Jack was in the slaughterhouse waiting for trial and Seth
barged in, they held on Mr. Woo's face a long moment as he watched
Seth enter. You get the idea this guy doesn't miss a trick and just
"plays dumb."
He seems to be stereotype Inscrutable Chinese. Strange, in a show that
so obviously avoids stereotyping. Something else must be going on with
Woo. Maybe he's really a government agent. IAC, if Farnum meets an
untimely end, don't be surprised if his corpse has a chopstick embedded
in its eye (shades of Ming T'ien!).
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
I brought the Mel Gibson/Glen Close version of Hamlet to my Mom's once
to have her watch it. I love that version [though now my feelings for
Mel are different and I likely won't ever watch it again]. IAC as
soon as it started Mom asked, "Does this have a happy ending?" LOL.
Uh.... it's SHAKESPEARE! HeLLO. We laughed really hard then she
complained all the way through. Especially at the end. (No good deed
goes unpunished, dontcha know.)
Mom must be WWII vintage--that generation are totally anal about
endings. ;-D
She was born in the late 1920's.
That's it. Came of age during WWII is what I meant (not so obviously,
sorry).
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
But I'm pretty anal about endings myself. However not nearly so much
as she is. She wants a happy ending only and only reads a happy
ending as "everyone gets what they want and lives happily ever
after." Whereas there are other types of "up" endings that aren't
necessarily *happy* but poignant and ultimately positive. Like
American Beauty. Or Spitfire Grill. Or Fried Green Tomatoes. All of
which she would consider bummers, while I don't.
Yep, that's characteristic of that generation (for some reason probably
only cultural anthropologists can explain). I have a childhood friend
whose mum was born mid 1920s, and she (the mum) has the *exact*
sensibilities you describe yours having. What films have you had
success with? My friend is extremely challenged finding "suitable"
movies to show her mum. She's had success with a few Coen ones (O
Brother Where Art Thou?, Raising Arizona, and Fargo). Also, the mum
enjoys Mel Brooks (Young Frankenstein, particularly), and Christopher
Guest (Best in Show, particularly). Try those on your mother. Report
back. :-D
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
As Andy would say. "Ah a-pala-gyze" but I cannot even begin to mix ROC
and EB in my head. I'd need a bad acid trip for that.
LOL! Fuggedabout ROC. EB Farnum does a perfectly petulant Lady M. :-D
You are so right. That he does. All kidding aside. He really does.
But he does a mean Gollum too. ;)
A mean *Hollywood* Gollum...I'll take your word for it. ;-)
Ah come on! :) When's the last time you read LOTR? Don't you remember
Gollum slinking about on the rocks nervously, talking to himself in
3rd person, self-consumed and utterly self-devoted? The slimiest of
creatures? Dudn't that sound like EB just a little? :)
I'm not arguing against. I'm just saying that--not having seen the
films--Gollum didn't immediately spring to mind when E B Farnum came on
screen. And now that you've put a face on Gollum, I wonder if I'll ever
be able to recall my precious imagined version before E B Farnum's
greasy, sweaty head beats him to view. ;-P
l***@large.com
2004-05-18 04:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
[Re E B Farnum:]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
He's so friggin scummy! The way he spoke to Mr. Woo too in the 2nd or
3rd ep when he brought the Irish guy there to be eaten by the pigs and
said something to Woo like, "Let the pigs et... let the dog et...
heck, eat him yourself you fucking heathen..." and was smiling the
whole time like he was saying the opposite. But I have a feeling Mr.
Woo speaks English (or at least understands it) perfectly.
Even if he doesn't, he probably has Farnum's number and doesn't trust
his tone of voice to match his tone of face.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Because when Jack was in the slaughterhouse waiting for trial and Seth
barged in, [...]. You get the idea this guy doesn't miss a trick and just
"plays dumb."
He seems to be stereotype Inscrutable Chinese. Strange, in a show that
so obviously avoids stereotyping.
But at that time there really was only one type of Chinese immigrant
(virtually speaking). In fact Mr. Woo is not really stereotypical... if
he were he woulda been working on the RR. :) Then again, what the hell
do I know. But I was under the impression the Chinese were considered
cheap labor and most lived here [initially] under horrid conditions
doing hard labor... unless of course they came over with huge amounts of
money. Woo's one up on his brothers, then. He has his own biz as a pig
farmer (I guess)?
Post by Tulgey Wood
Something else must be going on with
Woo. Maybe he's really a government agent.
That'd be interesting! But what interest would the govmt have in an
unincorporated settlement that was like so many others at the time?
Post by Tulgey Wood
IAC, if Farnum meets an
untimely end, don't be surprised if his corpse has a chopstick embedded
in its eye (shades of Ming T'ien!).
LOL! Now that he's Mayor (guffaw) he'll have to stick around a bit lest
Deadwood become known as the town that kills its Mayors.

[snip to Mom and movies w/ happy endings]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
She was born in the late 1920's.
That's it. Came of age during WWII is what I meant (not so obviously,
sorry).
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
But I'm pretty anal about endings myself. However not nearly so much
as she is. She wants a happy ending only and only reads a happy
ending as "everyone gets what they want and lives happily ever
after." Whereas there are other types of "up" endings that aren't
necessarily *happy* but poignant and ultimately positive. Like
American Beauty. Or Spitfire Grill. Or Fried Green Tomatoes. All of
which she would consider bummers, while I don't.
Yep, that's characteristic of that generation (for some reason probably
only cultural anthropologists can explain). I have a childhood friend
whose mum was born mid 1920s, and she (the mum) has the *exact*
sensibilities you describe yours having. What films have you had
success with? My friend is extremely challenged finding "suitable"
movies to show her mum. She's had success with a few Coen ones (O
Brother Where Art Thou?, Raising Arizona, and Fargo).
How funny. They sound exactly alike. She saw Thelma and Louise for the
first time a few weeks ago. (I know, can you believe it?) I thought
she'd hate it but she liked it... in a melancholy
too-bad-they-couldn't-get-away-with-it type way. I was shocked. Oh
Brother? She saw it at my sister's... I can't remember what she thought
of it, but she likely thought it was slow. I generally try things on her
with Sandra Bullock or Hugh Grant. I make a point of NOT showing her
anything I particularly love, b/c I don't want to hear to bemoan it.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Also, the mum
enjoys Mel Brooks (Young Frankenstein, particularly), and Christopher
Guest (Best in Show, particularly). Try those on your mother. Report
back. :-D
She (and I both) LOVE Young Frankenstein. Best in Show ?... hm. I've
seen it. I think she might be bored, but maybe I'll give it a whirl
sometime...
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
As Andy would say. "Ah a-pala-gyze" but I cannot even begin to mix ROC
and EB in my head. I'd need a bad acid trip for that.
LOL! Fuggedabout ROC. EB Farnum does a perfectly petulant Lady M. :-D
You are so right. That he does. All kidding aside. He really does.
But he does a mean Gollum too. ;)
A mean *Hollywood* Gollum...I'll take your word for it. ;-)
Ah come on! :) When's the last time you read LOTR? Don't you remember
Gollum slinking about on the rocks nervously, talking to himself in
3rd person, self-consumed and utterly self-devoted? The slimiest of
creatures? Dudn't that sound like EB just a little? :)
I'm not arguing against. I'm just saying that--not having seen the
films--Gollum didn't immediately spring to mind when E B Farnum came on
screen.
No, not for me either. Not until that scene where he's scrubbing that
bloodstain, skittering in circles, talking to himself! It was the
*movement* and manner... and I would have thought of Gollum even if I'd
never seen the movie.

You shouldn't be afraid to see LOTR, though only the first one (imo) was
good. The others were just too friggin long and slow. But it wasn't that
they ruined it. They really do, do justice for the most part. It's close
enough to how you imagined it, that you're willing to forgive the bits
that can't be captured. (Like for me the elven woods were very magical,
and magic is an ethereal quality that can't really be captured on screen
like it can in the imagination.)
Post by Tulgey Wood
And now that you've put a face on Gollum, I wonder if I'll ever
be able to recall my precious imagined version before E B Farnum's
greasy, sweaty head beats him to view. ;-P
EB's face is a walk in the park if you saw the Gollum on screen. The
Gollum I pictured in my imagination was less man-like. More frog-like.
But I didn't feel any real pinch making he transition in the movie.
That's the thing... they do such a good job that it isn't imposing on
your imagination... just a legitimate alternate version.
Tulgey Wood
2004-05-23 22:44:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
[Re E B Farnum:]
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
He's so friggin scummy! The way he spoke to Mr. Woo too in the 2nd or
3rd ep when he brought the Irish guy there to be eaten by the pigs and
said something to Woo like, "Let the pigs et... let the dog et...
heck, eat him yourself you fucking heathen..." and was smiling the
whole time like he was saying the opposite. But I have a feeling Mr.
Woo speaks English (or at least understands it) perfectly.
Even if he doesn't, he probably has Farnum's number and doesn't trust
his tone of voice to match his tone of face.
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Because when Jack was in the slaughterhouse waiting for trial and Seth
barged in, [...]. You get the idea this guy doesn't miss a trick and just
"plays dumb."
He seems to be stereotype Inscrutable Chinese. Strange, in a show that
so obviously avoids stereotyping.
But at that time there really was only one type of Chinese immigrant
(virtually speaking).
Yeah, inscrutable. ;-P
Post by l***@large.com
In fact Mr. Woo is not really stereotypical...
He's not? (No tickee, no laundry!)
Post by l***@large.com
if he were he woulda been working on the RR. :)
Mebbe no rail through Deadwood in 1876? Had there been, it woulda
obsoleted Pony Express and put Freight Utter Fuckin' Charlie Mail outta
business before he'd donned his frock coat and opened the front door.
Post by l***@large.com
Then again, what the hell do I know.
I dunno, what? ;-P
Post by l***@large.com
But I was under the impression the Chinese were considered cheap labor
and most lived here [initially] under horrid conditions doing hard
labor... unless of course they came over with huge amounts of money.
Yeah, but IIRC, the majority migrated here during the mid 1800s to take
advantage of the gold rush, and were hugely successful harvesting gold
ore from areas that had been abandoned by white miners as barren. As
you might expect, whitey got his shorts in a bunch over the success of
the Chinese immigrants, and managed to have them barred from mining. To
survive, the Chinese resorted to manual labor (railroad construction,
etc), and, in urban areas, service industries. They have the
distinction of being the first minority group to be legally
discriminated against by an act of Congress (Chinese Exclusion Act,
1882). Homosexuals will be the latest, if Dubya is reappointed.
Post by l***@large.com
Woo's one up on his brothers, then. He has his own biz as a pig
farmer (I guess)?
Actually, he owns Deadwood's only laundrette, and runs a disposal
service on the side (in which pigs serve as both cover and means--very,
very clever Mr Wu). :-D

Whatever or whoever he is, didn't he just give Joanie the most
inscrutable sidelong glance last week? :-D What up with dat?
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Something else must be going on with Woo. Maybe he's really a
government agent.
That'd be interesting! But what interest would the govmt have in an
unincorporated settlement that was like so many others at the time?
I was kidding, but if the government has an interest, it's likely to be
in someone (for example, Al Swearengen--wanted for murder in Chicago,
and possibly in the country illegally), or in the area's natural
resources.
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
IAC, if Farnum meets an untimely end, don't be surprised if his
corpse has a chopstick embedded in its eye (shades of Ming T'ien!).
LOL! Now that he's Mayor (guffaw)
Ha! Can you say 'figurehead?'
Post by l***@large.com
he'll have to stick around a bit lest Deadwood become known as the
town that kills its Mayors.
I'll bet he'll be around for awhile. He's just too funny to lose. I
nearly wet myself laughing when Merrick pointed out the shit faced E B
with a sarcastic, "Our mayor." Reminded me of the *countless* times
I've said "Our president" in the same tone while watching Bush II make
an arse of himself on television.

[Re The Greatest Generation: Mums]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
I have a childhood friend whose mum was born mid 1920s, and she (the
mum) has the *exact* sensibilities you describe yours having. What
films have you had success with? My friend is extremely challenged
finding "suitable" movies to show her mum. She's had success with a
few Coen ones (O Brother Where Art Thou?, Raising Arizona, and
Fargo).
How funny. They sound exactly alike. She saw Thelma and Louise for the
first time a few weeks ago. (I know, can you believe it?) I thought
she'd hate it but she liked it... in a melancholy
too-bad-they-couldn't-get-away-with-it type way. I was shocked.
That is surprising. My friend didn't show T&L to hers because she
reckoned hers would be put off by the violence and the car chase action.
Post by l***@large.com
Oh Brother? She saw it at my sister's... I can't remember what she
thought of it, but she likely thought it was slow.
My friend's mum loved the music. My friend says she had a great time
singing along with the soundtrack, but that most of the rest of the film
went right past her. :-D
Post by l***@large.com
I generally try things on her with Sandra Bullock or Hugh Grant. I
make a point of NOT showing her anything I particularly love, b/c I
don't want to hear to bemoan it.
When I watch a movie with my friend and her mum, we pretend we're the
'bots on Mystery Science Theater and goof on it right along with her.
It's a scream. :-D
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Also, the mum enjoys Mel Brooks (Young Frankenstein, particularly),
and Christopher Guest (Best in Show, particularly). Try those on
your mother. Report back. :-D
She (and I both) LOVE Young Frankenstein. Best in Show ?... hm. I've
seen it. I think she might be bored, but maybe I'll give it a whirl
sometime...
If she likes dogs and likes to watch show dog competitions on cable,
she'll probably enjoy it, even if she doesn't get the humor.

Also, I forgot to mention Ghostbusters was a huge hit.

[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Post by Tulgey Wood
EB Farnum does a perfectly petulant Lady M. :-D
You are so right. That he does. All kidding aside. He really does.
But he does a mean Gollum too. ;)
A mean *Hollywood* Gollum...I'll take your word for it. ;-)
Ah come on! :) When's the last time you read LOTR? Don't you remember
Gollum slinking about on the rocks nervously, talking to himself in
3rd person, self-consumed and utterly self-devoted? The slimiest of
creatures? Dudn't that sound like EB just a little? :)
I'm not arguing against. I'm just saying that--not having seen the
films--Gollum didn't immediately spring to mind when E B Farnum came on
screen.
No, not for me either. Not until that scene where he's scrubbing that
bloodstain, skittering in circles, talking to himself! It was the
*movement* and manner... and I would have thought of Gollum even if I'd
never seen the movie.
Uh-huh. I get it, now.
Post by l***@large.com
You shouldn't be afraid to see LOTR, though only the first one (imo) was
good.
French & Saunders did a brilliant spoof of it that was bloody hilarious,
and I wonder if I would be able to watch it without thinking of them.
<snort> :-D But...okay. I won't say never.
Post by l***@large.com
The others were just too friggin long and slow.
But I might say never to these. Who has time for too friggin' long and
slow? :-D
Post by l***@large.com
But it wasn't that they ruined it. They really do, do justice for the
most part. It's close enough to how you imagined it, that you're
willing to forgive the bits that can't be captured. (Like for me the
elven woods were very magical, and magic is an ethereal quality that
can't really be captured on screen like it can in the imagination.)
That's it. It's ersatz--I reckon if the real thing is better, why
bother with something that can't measure up.
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
And now that you've put a face on Gollum, I wonder if I'll ever
be able to recall my precious imagined version before E B Farnum's
greasy, sweaty head beats him to view. ;-P
EB's face is a walk in the park if you saw the Gollum on screen. The
Gollum I pictured in my imagination was less man-like. More frog-like.
But I didn't feel any real pinch making he transition in the movie.
That's the thing... they do such a good job that it isn't imposing on
your imagination... just a legitimate alternate version.
I suppose it's the idea of there being a non-Tolkien alternate version
that puts me off. Probably, I shouldn't be such a prig about it.
l***@large.com
2004-05-30 02:25:07 UTC
Permalink
[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by Calamity Coyote ()
Because when Jack was in the slaughterhouse waiting for trial and Seth
barged in, [...]. You get the idea this guy doesn't miss a trick and just
"plays dumb."
He seems to be stereotype Inscrutable Chinese. Strange, in a show that
so obviously avoids stereotyping.
But at that time there really was only one type of Chinese immigrant
(virtually speaking).
Yeah, inscrutable. ;-P
:)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
In fact Mr. Woo is not really stereotypical...
He's not? (No tickee, no laundry!)
LOL!! Okay, I take it all back...
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
if he were he woulda been working on the RR. :)
Mebbe no rail through Deadwood in 1876? Had there been, it woulda
obsoleted Pony Express and put Freight Utter Fuckin' Charlie Mail outta
business before he'd donned his frock coat and opened the front door.
"D'oh!" I need a krispy kreme.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Then again, what the hell do I know.
I dunno, what? ;-P
(Nuthin' obviously!!)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
But I was under the impression the Chinese were considered cheap labor
and most lived here [initially] under horrid conditions doing hard
labor... unless of course they came over with huge amounts of money.
Yeah, but IIRC, the majority migrated here during the mid 1800s to take
advantage of the gold rush, and were hugely successful harvesting gold
ore from areas that had been abandoned by white miners as barren. As
you might expect, whitey got his shorts in a bunch over the success of
the Chinese immigrants, and managed to have them barred from mining. To
survive, the Chinese resorted to manual labor (railroad construction,
etc), and, in urban areas, service industries. They have the
distinction of being the first minority group to be legally
discriminated against by an act of Congress (Chinese Exclusion Act,
1882). Homosexuals will be the latest, if Dubya is reappointed.
I had no idea about them mining b/f the RR....
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Woo's one up on his brothers, then. He has his own biz as a pig
farmer (I guess)?
Actually, he owns Deadwood's only laundrette, and runs a disposal
service on the side (in which pigs serve as both cover and means--very,
very clever Mr Wu). :-D
Jeeze I even got his name wrong!
Post by Tulgey Wood
Whatever or whoever he is, didn't he just give Joanie the most
inscrutable sidelong glance last week? :-D What up with dat?
Perv.

[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
he'll have to stick around a bit lest Deadwood become known as the
town that kills its Mayors.
I'll bet he'll be around for awhile. He's just too funny to lose. I
nearly wet myself laughing when Merrick pointed out the shit faced E B
with a sarcastic, "Our mayor." Reminded me of the *countless* times
I've said "Our president" in the same tone while watching Bush II make
an arse of himself on television.
Did you hear he fell on his bike and went boom, skinned his chin, knees
and the tip of his nose? Thank god he was wearing a helmet and MOUTH
GUARD! (I kid you not!) I saw the article online the other night and was
reading it out loud to Wolf and it just got funnier and funnier until we
were both laughing. Then the topper was the last paragraph that said
Kerry also fell off his bike recently. When told about Bush, Kerry
remarked, "Hope he's alright. I didn't know the President could ride a
bike."

LOL!


[...]

[...]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
You shouldn't be afraid to see LOTR, though only the first one (imo) was
good.
French & Saunders did a brilliant spoof of it that was bloody hilarious,
and I wonder if I would be able to watch it without thinking of them.
<snort> :-D But...okay. I won't say never.
F&S? No idea. But I bet it was funny.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
The others were just too friggin long and slow.
But I might say never to these. Who has time for too friggin' long and
slow? :-D
Yeah, only one place that works...
Post by Tulgey Wood
I suppose it's the idea of there being a non-Tolkien alternate version
that puts me off. Probably, I shouldn't be such a prig about it.
Why a non-Tolkien version? You mean b/c he wasn't there to render the
CGI? I hear you and I would have loved to have seen how he directed
Gollum to be designed, the sets, etc.
Tulgey Wood
2004-05-31 04:10:19 UTC
Permalink
[snip]

[Re Wu:]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
He has his own biz as a pig farmer (I guess)?
Actually, he owns Deadwood's only laundrette, and runs a disposal
service on the side (in which pigs serve as both cover and means--very,
very clever Mr Wu). :-D
Jeeze I even got his name wrong!
So had I, but corrected when I saw last week's ep title. :-D

[snip]

[Re Farnum:]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
he'll have to stick around a bit lest Deadwood become known as the
town that kills its Mayors.
I'll bet he'll be around for awhile. He's just too funny to lose. I
nearly wet myself laughing when Merrick pointed out the shit faced E B
with a sarcastic, "Our mayor." Reminded me of the *countless* times
I've said "Our president" in the same tone while watching Bush II make
an arse of himself on television.
Did you hear he fell on his bike and went boom, skinned his chin, knees
and the tip of his nose? Thank god he was wearing a helmet and MOUTH
GUARD! (I kid you not!) I saw the article online the other night and was
reading it out loud to Wolf and it just got funnier and funnier until we
were both laughing. Then the topper was the last paragraph that said
Kerry also fell off his bike recently. When told about Bush, Kerry
remarked, "Hope he's alright. I didn't know the President could ride a
bike."
LOL!
LOL!! He fell off his Segway scooter thingy awhile back, too. There
was video and all. Too funny, that. Everyone used to laugh at Ford
because he was accident prone and always tripping over his own feet and
lurching into things, but I gotta say, Ford has nothing on Bush II in
that regard.
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
You shouldn't be afraid to see LOTR, though only the first one (imo) was
good.
French & Saunders did a brilliant spoof of it that was bloody hilarious,
and I wonder if I would be able to watch it without thinking of them.
<snort> :-D But...okay. I won't say never.
F&S? No idea. But I bet it was funny.
Hilarious. The DVD it appears on--I *think* it's Living in a Material
World--should be available at the video rental. There are four F&S DVDs
currently "in print," should you need a laughfest.

[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
I suppose it's the idea of there being a non-Tolkien alternate version
that puts me off. Probably, I shouldn't be such a prig about it.
Why a non-Tolkien version? You mean b/c he wasn't there to render the
CGI?
No, because he was a novelist, not a filmmaker. I'm *that* anal. ;-P
Post by l***@large.com
I hear you and I would have loved to have seen how he directed
Gollum to be designed, the sets, etc.
If you've read the books, you have. ;-)
Calamity Coyote ()
2004-05-31 18:36:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
[Re Wu:]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
He has his own biz as a pig farmer (I guess)?
Actually, he owns Deadwood's only laundrette, and runs a disposal
service on the side (in which pigs serve as both cover and means--very,
very clever Mr Wu). :-D
Jeeze I even got his name wrong!
So had I, but corrected when I saw last week's ep title. :-D
I finally noticed it too. I wish they'd show the title of each ep when
it airs, instead of having to wait until it comes OD to see it.
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Re: The Prez
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Did you hear he fell on his bike and went boom, skinned his chin, knees
and the tip of his nose? Thank god he was wearing a helmet and MOUTH
GUARD! (I kid you not!) I saw the article online the other night and was
reading it out loud to Wolf and it just got funnier and funnier until we
were both laughing. Then the topper was the last paragraph that said
Kerry also fell off his bike recently. When told about Bush, Kerry
remarked, "Hope he's alright. I didn't know the President could ride a
bike."
LOL!
LOL!! He fell off his Segway scooter thingy awhile back, too. There
was video and all. Too funny, that. Everyone used to laugh at Ford
because he was accident prone and always tripping over his own feet and
lurching into things, but I gotta say, Ford has nothing on Bush II in
that regard.
Too funny! I missed that!
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
You shouldn't be afraid to see LOTR, though only the first one (imo) was
good.
French & Saunders did a brilliant spoof of it that was bloody hilarious,
and I wonder if I would be able to watch it without thinking of them.
<snort> :-D But...okay. I won't say never.
F&S? No idea. But I bet it was funny.
Hilarious. The DVD it appears on--I *think* it's Living in a Material
World--should be available at the video rental. There are four F&S DVDs
currently "in print," should you need a laughfest.
I'll look for it.
Post by Tulgey Wood
[snip]
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
I suppose it's the idea of there being a non-Tolkien alternate version
that puts me off. Probably, I shouldn't be such a prig about it.
Why a non-Tolkien version? You mean b/c he wasn't there to render the
CGI?
No, because he was a novelist, not a filmmaker. I'm *that* anal. ;-P
Ah! I don't blame you. There are certain books that will never
translate as well on screen as they do in the imagination. Even if the
rendering is impressive it's still usually so much different from how
we imagined it.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
I hear you and I would have loved to have seen how he directed
Gollum to be designed, the sets, etc.
If you've read the books, you have. ;-)
Touche. You're right of course. In my head I watched every event
unfold. However I would bet Tolkien's imagination beat the snot out of
mine. You know what would make a cool book? Seeing like 500 different
people's versions of Gollum, Bilbo, Frodo, etc. Then have Tolkien's at
the end. Of course it can't be done, but it would be interesting to
see how famous people -- some with great imaginations, some
politicians, some every day people -- pictured the characters from the
books.

Calamity Coyote
l***@large
2004-04-21 18:53:32 UTC
Permalink
http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/?ntrack_para1=leftnav_category0_show1

Deadwood page. Seems Seth Bullock was his real name. Cool place to
look around... pics of the real Calamity Jane, and others...
l***@large
2004-04-21 19:03:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large
http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/?ntrack_para1=leftnav_category0_show1
Deadwood page. Seems Seth Bullock was his real name. Cool place to
look around... pics of the real Calamity Jane, and others...
This site is SO COOL. I don't have time to read it all now, but near
the bottom there's a pic of the real Calamity, and if you click it
takes you to a photo album of pics of the real Deadwood, the real Seth
Bullock, Sol Star, Bill, etc.

I want a Deadwood teeshirt! (They're even appropriately faded.) Don't
laugh at me. I never bought anything Xena. I'm due.
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-26 04:41:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large
Post by l***@large
http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/?ntrack_para1=leftnav_category0_show1
Deadwood page. Seems Seth Bullock was his real name. Cool place to
look around... pics of the real Calamity Jane, and others...
This site is SO COOL. I don't have time to read it all now, but near
the bottom there's a pic of the real Calamity, and if you click it
takes you to a photo album of pics of the real Deadwood, the real Seth
Bullock, Sol Star, Bill, etc.
I've yet to dig very deeply at the site, but what I've seen so far looks
pretty interesting. Hope to check it out in depth this week.
Post by l***@large
I want a Deadwood teeshirt! (They're even appropriately faded.)
They have t-shirts? Can't wait to see!
Post by l***@large
Don't laugh at me. I never bought anything Xena.
What? No Xena curios? :-D
Post by l***@large
I'm due.
Yeah, ya are--for a Xena shirt. There were some nice ones at Power Star
last I looked (http://www.tvmerch.com).
l***@large.com
2004-04-28 03:20:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
I want a Deadwood teeshirt! (They're even appropriately faded.)
They have t-shirts? Can't wait to see!
They're very cool.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
Don't laugh at me. I never bought anything Xena.
What? No Xena curios? :-D
Just Wolf. :-D
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large
I'm due.
Yeah, ya are--for a Xena shirt. There were some nice ones at Power Star
last I looked (http://www.tvmerch.com).
Wrong girl!

Calamity Coyote
The L Wolf
2004-04-03 20:24:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
That cheap/good/fast triangle BS Candace pulled is just a contractor's
gimmicky way of pointing out that you get what you pay for.
Just in case there is anyone in the viewing audience who has never received a
contracting bid on anything in life ever... duh-huh.
Post by Tulgey Wood
So Bette
gives the museum job to Candace so she can "bump up against" *her* "for
the better part of a year." Gee, do you think they could have drawn us
a clearer picture?
No.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Right. That's disgusting enough, but then, Tina leaves her brain in
Alice's van and swallows--hook, line, and bloody sinker--Bette's hugely
lame excuse for why she whispers in an agonized voice, "I can't, I just
can't" before she knows it's Tina behind her.
Tina was so happy to be away from the Hundred Footer convention that she didn't
much care what Bette said, I guess.
Post by Tulgey Wood
(And I hope that's as far as that goes!)
I do, too, but my prediction is we haven't seen the last of Carpenter
Candy, and I expect poor Tina will find out about her sooner rather than
later. Please, an affair? With the museum carpenter? I guess we
should be thankful it wasn't the pool girl. IAC, what a butt-stoopid
story arc. It's worse than the baby one.
Yeah, much worse. Oh well, Alice's "everybody's connected" board has to come in
handy somehow...
Post by Tulgey Wood
(Disclaimer: All quotations above are paraphrased, onaccounta I only
got to see the ep once and didn't take notes.)
Here let me give you a little reminder:

"I'M TRYIN TO TELL YOU SOMETHING BOUT MY LIFE
MAYBE GIVE ME INSIGHT BETWEEN BLACK AND WHITE
AND THE BEST THING YOU'VE EVER DONE FOR ME
IS TO HELP ME TAKE MY LIFE LESS SERIOUSLY
IT'S ONLY LIFE AFTERALL... YEAH."

heh heh

-L Wolf
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-04 00:16:48 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Tina leaves her brain in
Alice's van and swallows--hook, line, and bloody sinker--Bette's hugely
lame excuse for why she whispers in an agonized voice, "I can't, I just
can't" before she knows it's Tina behind her.
Tina was so happy to be away from the Hundred Footer convention that she didn't
much care what Bette said, I guess.
As it's been discussed previously, that sort of omission is very lazy,
sloppy writing. Why let this incident pass without comment...unless
we're all just tired of complaining and are suffering from TLW burnout?
:-O~~~~~~~
l***@large.com
2004-04-04 23:54:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
<snip>
And yes, whoever is sitting closest to Bette, please bitch-slap her for
me too!
Huh? Ya wot? Right, who are you, and what have you done with
Last week was bad enough with Slim Diddy putting the affair idea into
Bette's mind (though when she does start smearing about on ol' Carpenter
Candy, I'm sure Slim Diddy is the farthest thing from her mind). This
week they have her practically paying for sex (with CAC funds), and all
you can manage is a proxy bitch-slap? ;-D
LOL. (But I knew Wolf would slap her good!) <g>... [don't go there!]

I was tired and have done so much bitching about this show and the
writing, that I didn't want to get into what I didn't like... i.e. the
entire Bette part. But you covered it nicely, so thanks. ;-)
Post by Tulgey Wood
That cheap/good/fast triangle BS Candace pulled is just a contractor's
gimmicky way of pointing out that you get what you pay for.
Not only was it bad b/c anyone in Bette's position would have known
about it already, it was even worse because in Queer As Folk, Melanie's
ex was a *carpenter* that had an affair with Linsey/Mel [3-way] while
fixing up their attic... and when she tells them how much it's gonna
cost, guess what she pulls out... yup. The triangle. With the same
dialog almost word-for word that we had here. So not only was this
entire thing aggravating in and of itself for the lack of believability
and the missing setup, it was aggravating because it was a direct ripoff
of QAF right down to the "other" woman being a carpenter. Now you see
why I didn't bother getting into it being tired and short of time and
all.
Post by Tulgey Wood
So Bette
gives the museum job to Candace so she can "bump up against" *her* "for
the better part of a year." Gee, do you think they could have drawn us
a clearer picture?
They could, but it'll cost ya. /_\
Post by Tulgey Wood
Right. That's disgusting enough, but then, Tina leaves her brain in
Alice's van and swallows--hook, line, and bloody sinker--Bette's hugely
lame excuse for why she whispers in an agonized voice, "I can't, I just
can't" before she knows it's Tina behind her.
The only thing I have to say in Tina's [the writer's] defense there is,
people who are not expecting someone to cheat completely throw out "does
not compute" lines when they hear them. Tina thinks Bette would be the
last person on the face of the earth to cheat... especially when she
jumped all over Marina and made Tina leave Tim's party b/c of the
shenanigans b/t Jenny and Marina. So no matter WHAT Bette said, Tina
would likely take whatever explanation she gave at face value, even if
some little voice inside said, "that's a little weird, but oh well,
whatever" ... KWIM? I've done that with people before where I just was
not expecting them to do what they did, and so missed all the signs. And
I don't even have bad writers feeding me lines. Tina blindly trusts
Bette _at this point_. The other thing is, since they really *didn't*
set this up properly, Tina has nothing to be suspicious OF. Nothing to
make her 2nd-guess Bette explanation, lousy as it might have been.
Post by Tulgey Wood
(And I hope that's as far as that goes!)
I do, too, but my prediction is we haven't seen the last of Carpenter
Candy, and I expect poor Tina will find out about her sooner rather than
later.
Well, from the spoilers yes, but I was hoping against hope they rewrote
it.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Please, an affair? With the museum carpenter? I guess we
should be thankful it wasn't the pool girl.
I would have preferred the pool girl since I don't like Carpenter Candy.
She reminds me of Vasquez from Aliens. (I know, she was a fave but not
my type.)
Post by Tulgey Wood
IAC, what a butt-stoopid story arc. It's worse than the baby one.
Arc? What arc? A slime ball makes a comment and Bette cheats.

::Oh the pain.::


***@large
Ltcomdr
2004-04-05 23:05:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
<snip>
And yes, whoever is sitting closest to Bette, please bitch-slap her for
me too!
Oh please someone shake her!!!!
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
<snip>
So Bette
gives the museum job to Candace so she can "bump up against" *her* "for
the better part of a year." Gee, do you think they could have drawn us
a clearer picture?
They could, but it'll cost ya. /_\
I know I was a little unsure of the symbolism attached to this 'triangle'
for a solid 3 to 4 seconds (not the sharpest pencil in the box)
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Right. That's disgusting enough, but then, Tina leaves her brain in
Alice's van and swallows--hook, line, and bloody sinker--Bette's hugely
lame excuse for why she whispers in an agonized voice, "I can't, I just
can't" before she knows it's Tina behind her.
The only thing I have to say in Tina's [the writer's] defense there is,
people who are not expecting someone to cheat completely throw out "does
not compute" lines when they hear them. Tina thinks Bette would be the
last person on the face of the earth to cheat... especially when she
jumped all over Marina and made Tina leave Tim's party b/c of the
shenanigans b/t Jenny and Marina. So no matter WHAT Bette said, Tina
would likely take whatever explanation she gave at face value, even if
some little voice inside said, "that's a little weird, but oh well,
whatever" ... KWIM? I've done that with people before where I just was
not expecting them to do what they did, and so missed all the signs. And
I don't even have bad writers feeding me lines. Tina blindly trusts
Bette _at this point_. The other thing is, since they really *didn't*
set this up properly, Tina has nothing to be suspicious OF. Nothing to
make her 2nd-guess Bette explanation, lousy as it might have been.
I reckon she knows all to well sure she said as much the ep previous "blah,
blah not feeling loved and protected lately". However she believes in Bette
and is letting her work it out herself rather then going off at her. (if
you get what I'm trying to say here?)
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
(And I hope that's as far as that goes!)
I do, too, but my prediction is we haven't seen the last of Carpenter
Candy, and I expect poor Tina will find out about her sooner rather than
later.
it.
Me too. I'm total enraptured with their relationship. (could I sound like
more of a lamo?)


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Tulgey Wood
2004-04-07 03:31:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
And yes, whoever is sitting closest to Bette, please bitch-slap her for
me too!
Huh? Ya wot? Right, who are you, and what have you done with
Last week was bad enough with Slim Diddy putting the affair idea into
Bette's mind (though when she does start smearing about on ol' Carpenter
Candy, I'm sure Slim Diddy is the farthest thing from her mind). This
week they have her practically paying for sex (with CAC funds), and all
you can manage is a proxy bitch-slap? ;-D
LOL. (But I knew Wolf would slap her good!) <g>... [don't go there!]
LOL! Of course you did. <snort> But the woman needs more than a
Wolf-style bitch-slap. She needs the business end of a biker bootie
applied to her backside several times in quick succession. Any takers?
Post by l***@large.com
I was tired and have done so much bitching about this show and the
writing, that I didn't want to get into what I didn't like... i.e. the
entire Bette part. But you covered it nicely, so thanks. ;-)
Okay, you're entitled to take off from kvetching (I did, after all).
But only for one ep. ;-)
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
That cheap/good/fast triangle BS Candace pulled is just a contractor's
gimmicky way of pointing out that you get what you pay for.
Not only was it bad b/c anyone in Bette's position would have known
about it already, it was even worse because in Queer As Folk, Melanie's
ex was a *carpenter* that had an affair with Linsey/Mel [3-way] while
fixing up their attic... and when she tells them how much it's gonna
cost, guess what she pulls out... yup. The triangle. With the same
dialog almost word-for word that we had here. So not only was this
entire thing aggravating in and of itself for the lack of believability
and the missing setup, it was aggravating because it was a direct ripoff
of QAF right down to the "other" woman being a carpenter. Now you see
why I didn't bother getting into it being tired and short of time and
all.
I *do* see. And I'll never defend ner play devil's advocate for those
bloody writers again.
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
So Bette
gives the museum job to Candace so she can "bump up against" *her* "for
the better part of a year." Gee, do you think they could have drawn us
a clearer picture?
They could, but it'll cost ya. /_\
<ssssllllaaaappppppp!> <--a Usenet beotch-slap
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Right. That's disgusting enough, but then, Tina leaves her brain in
Alice's van and swallows--hook, line, and bloody sinker--Bette's hugely
lame excuse for why she whispers in an agonized voice, "I can't, I just
can't" before she knows it's Tina behind her.
The only thing I have to say in Tina's [the writer's] defense there is,
Now *you're* doing it! ;-)
Post by l***@large.com
people who are not expecting someone to cheat completely throw out "does
not compute" lines when they hear them.
Okay, that makes sense. I withdraw the idiot remarks about Tina.

<snip>
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Please, an affair? With the museum carpenter? I guess we
should be thankful it wasn't the pool girl.
I would have preferred the pool girl
No you wouldn't. You'd have preferred Bette keep her hands to herself,
or on Tina, where they belong. *Is* there a pool girl, anyway? I was
being sarcastic.
Post by l***@large.com
since I don't like Carpenter Candy. She reminds me of Vasquez from
Aliens. (I know, she was a fave but not my type.)
Oh, no kidding she does. Vasquez II. Not my type either, but
irritating besides.
l***@large.com
2004-04-07 04:27:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Last week was bad enough with Slim Diddy putting the affair idea into
Bette's mind (though when she does start smearing about on ol' Carpenter
Candy, I'm sure Slim Diddy is the farthest thing from her mind). This
week they have her practically paying for sex (with CAC funds), and all
you can manage is a proxy bitch-slap? ;-D
LOL. (But I knew Wolf would slap her good!) <g>... [don't go there!]
LOL! Of course you did. <snort> But the woman needs more than a
Wolf-style bitch-slap. She needs the business end of a biker bootie
applied to her backside several times in quick succession. Any takers?
I got a nice pair o' Klingon biker steel-shinned hobnails and could
practice some Lord o the Dance on her ass? <lol>

[snip buncha funny stuff]
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Please, an affair? With the museum carpenter? I guess we
should be thankful it wasn't the pool girl.
I would have preferred the pool girl
No you wouldn't. You'd have preferred Bette keep her hands to herself,
or on Tina, where they belong.
Oh yeah. That's what I woulda preferred!
Post by Tulgey Wood
*Is* there a pool girl, anyway? I was being sarcastic.
Only if you count Trish. Hey... come to think of it... I thought Bette
and Tina were the ones with the pool. In the pilot Jenn walks into Tim's
backyard, looks through the fence and sees Shane making it in Bette and
Tina's pool with one of her babes. And nowhere was there a pool in Tim's
backyard. Now suddenly Tim has a pool too? Or was he and Trish in
Bette's backyard?
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
since I don't like Carpenter Candy. She reminds me of Vasquez from
Aliens. (I know, she was a fave but not my type.)
Oh, no kidding she does. Vasquez II. Not my type either, but
irritating besides.
Maybe she's an illegal Alein and gets de-Portered. :-D

***@large
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-09 03:48:34 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
This
week they have her practically paying for sex (with CAC funds), and all
you can manage is a proxy bitch-slap? ;-D
LOL. (But I knew Wolf would slap her good!) <g>... [don't go there!]
LOL! Of course you did. <snort> But the woman needs more than a
Wolf-style bitch-slap. She needs the business end of a biker bootie
applied to her backside several times in quick succession. Any takers?
I got a nice pair o' Klingon biker steel-shinned hobnails and could
practice some Lord o the Dance on her ass? <lol>
ROTFL!! Now yer talking! :-D

<snip>
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
I don't like Carpenter Candy. She reminds me of Vasquez from
Aliens. (I know, she was a fave but not my type.)
Oh, no kidding she does. Vasquez II. Not my type either, but
irritating besides.
Maybe she's an illegal Alein and gets de-Portered. :-D
LOL!! Maybe when the INS comes for Marina, they'll get Candy, too.
The L Wolf
2004-04-07 05:41:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
And yes, whoever is sitting closest to Bette, please bitch-slap her for
me too!
Huh? Ya wot? Right, who are you, and what have you done with
Last week was bad enough with Slim Diddy putting the affair idea into
Bette's mind (though when she does start smearing about on ol' Carpenter
Candy, I'm sure Slim Diddy is the farthest thing from her mind). This
week they have her practically paying for sex (with CAC funds), and all
you can manage is a proxy bitch-slap? ;-D
LOL. (But I knew Wolf would slap her good!) <g>... [don't go there!]
LOL! Of course you did. <snort> But the woman needs more than a
Wolf-style bitch-slap. She needs the business end of a biker bootie
applied to her backside several times in quick succession. Any takers?
Wolf has boots! Harley steel-toe, Catipillar, Doc Maartens, and, um well,
Timberlands, right next to the high-heeled dress-up ones... Grrrr.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
I was tired and have done so much bitching about this show and the
writing, that I didn't want to get into what I didn't like... i.e. the
entire Bette part. But you covered it nicely, so thanks. ;-)
Okay, you're entitled to take off from kvetching (I did, after all).
But only for one ep. ;-)
Joiner. ;-)
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
That cheap/good/fast triangle BS Candace pulled is just a contractor's
gimmicky way of pointing out that you get what you pay for.
Not only was it bad b/c anyone in Bette's position would have known
about it already, it was even worse because in Queer As Folk, Melanie's
ex was a *carpenter* that had an affair with Linsey/Mel [3-way] while
fixing up their attic... and when she tells them how much it's gonna
cost, guess what she pulls out... yup. The triangle. With the same
dialog almost word-for word that we had here. So not only was this
entire thing aggravating in and of itself for the lack of believability
and the missing setup, it was aggravating because it was a direct ripoff
of QAF right down to the "other" woman being a carpenter. Now you see
why I didn't bother getting into it being tired and short of time and
all.
Damn Candace herself is a two-sided triangle: fast and cheap.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
people who are not expecting someone to cheat completely throw out "does
not compute" lines when they hear them.
Okay, that makes sense. I withdraw the idiot remarks about Tina.
Tina wallops the crap out of Bette! Maybe real Bette will emerge.
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
Please, an affair? With the museum carpenter? I guess we
should be thankful it wasn't the pool girl.
I would have preferred the pool girl
No you wouldn't. You'd have preferred Bette keep her hands to herself,
or on Tina, where they belong. *Is* there a pool girl, anyway? I was
being sarcastic.
No, just Harrison, Dana's doubles partner, who also doubles as Bette's personal
poolside trainer. He *is* pretty nelly but not a girl.

-Wolf
l***@large.com
2004-04-08 00:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
Post by Tulgey Wood
And yes, whoever is sitting closest to Bette, please bitch-slap her for
me too!
Huh? Ya wot? Right, who are you, and what have you done with
Last week was bad enough with Slim Diddy putting the affair idea into
Bette's mind (though when she does start smearing about on ol' Carpenter
Candy, I'm sure Slim Diddy is the farthest thing from her mind). This
week they have her practically paying for sex (with CAC funds), and all
you can manage is a proxy bitch-slap? ;-D
LOL. (But I knew Wolf would slap her good!) <g>... [don't go there!]
LOL! Of course you did. <snort> But the woman needs more than a
Wolf-style bitch-slap. She needs the business end of a biker bootie
applied to her backside several times in quick succession. Any takers?
Wolf has boots! Harley steel-toe, Catipillar, Doc Maartens, and, um well,
Timberlands, right next to the high-heeled dress-up ones... Grrrr.
[to Tulgey on the sly] (Wolf has boots but she wouldn't kick anyone's
ass with them.) <g> ::What dear?::

************************************************************************
ATTENTION: ***@large will not be available until further notice
due to a boot-toe-removal from-the-ass operation.
************************************************************************
Tulgey Wood
2004-04-09 03:55:03 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
This week they have her practically paying for sex (with CAC funds),
and all you can manage is a proxy bitch-slap? ;-D
LOL. (But I knew Wolf would slap her good!) <g>... [don't go there!]
LOL! Of course you did. <snort> But the woman needs more than a
Wolf-style bitch-slap. She needs the business end of a biker bootie
applied to her backside several times in quick succession. Any takers?
Wolf has boots! Harley steel-toe, Catipillar, Doc Maartens, and, um well,
Timberlands, right next to the high-heeled dress-up ones... Grrrr.
Are there any roach-in-the-corner cowboy ones in that collection ('cause
those are just the ones I have in mind for the job, now I think about
it)? :-D
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
I was tired and have done so much bitching about this show and the
writing, that I didn't want to get into what I didn't like... i.e. the
entire Bette part. But you covered it nicely, so thanks. ;-)
Okay, you're entitled to take off from kvetching (I did, after all).
But only for one ep. ;-)
Joiner. ;-)
Not me. I'll admit to being handy with tools only in an emergency.
Perhaps you're thinking of Carpenter Candy. ;-P
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
That cheap/good/fast triangle BS Candace pulled is just a contractor's
gimmicky way of pointing out that you get what you pay for.
Not only was it bad b/c anyone in Bette's position would have known
about it already, it was even worse because in Queer As Folk, Melanie's
ex was a *carpenter* that had an affair with Linsey/Mel [3-way] while
fixing up their attic... and when she tells them how much it's gonna
cost, guess what she pulls out... yup. The triangle. With the same
dialog almost word-for word that we had here. So not only was this
entire thing aggravating in and of itself for the lack of believability
and the missing setup, it was aggravating because it was a direct ripoff
of QAF right down to the "other" woman being a carpenter. Now you see
why I didn't bother getting into it being tired and short of time and
all.
Damn Candace herself is a two-sided triangle: fast and cheap.
A two-sided triangle. Might that look something like this: /|\ ?
ROTFLAMOJ! Ah, by the gods, I think I need to go to bed. :-D
Post by The L Wolf
Post by Tulgey Wood
Post by l***@large.com
people who are not expecting someone to cheat completely throw out "does
not compute" lines when they hear them.
Okay, that makes sense. I withdraw the idiot remarks about Tina.
Tina wallops the crap out of Bette! Maybe real Bette will emerge.
Maybe she will. What does Tina smack her with?
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